<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158840">As James said earlier, canvec/geobase opendata provides the street names. This can be easily corrected. But we need to establish a procedure and identify which ways chdr originally added the name.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163125"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163521">We can look simply at the history with a link to the OSM API</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163533">example adding the id after way/ : <br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163599"><a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/way/110941725/history" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163532">http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/way/110941725/history</a></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163531"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_162733">Looking at the list Frederik provided for Quebec, Canada for the first 10 elements, I see that for 7 of 10, chdr simply modified the typo.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163867"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163175">1. names originally added by chdr <br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163188">example: id=103339404, 103339466, 120529990</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163215">2. chdr simply modified the typo<br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_160103">example id=102499927, 102501108, 104524659, 104524663, 110941725, 117091567, 119245374<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163584"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_163583" dir="ltr">regard<br></div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158273"><span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0, 191);font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_160155"> <br><font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_160156" face="garamond, new york, times, serif">Pierre </font><br></span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158274"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158958" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158957"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, linéale; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158956"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158955"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158959" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1503712143039_158961" size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">De :</span></b> Frederik Ramm <frederik@remote.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">À :</span></b> Talk Openstreetmap <talk@openstreetmap.org>; "talk-us@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap" <talk-us@openstreetmap.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Dimanche 27 août 2017 9h51<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Objet :</span></b> [OSM-talk] Redacting 75,000 street names contributed by user chdr<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div dir="ltr">Hi,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> in 2010 I was privately contacted by another OSM user with the<br></div><div dir="ltr">suspicion that user "chdr" might be copying names from Google maps<br></div><div dir="ltr">(there were few "easter eggs" in Oman that were only on Google and not<br></div><div dir="ltr">in the real world, and they suddenly popped up on OSM). "chdr" was<br></div><div dir="ltr">contacted at the time, but continued unfazed. In 2013 another mapper<br></div><div dir="ltr">lodged a complaint with DWG about edits by chdr, and I emailed chdr<br></div><div dir="ltr">asking him about his sources. At that point chdr stopped mapping. He<br></div><div dir="ltr">never replied about his sources though, even when I set an ultimatum (of<br></div><div dir="ltr">31st August 2013) threatening to remove all names he contributed if he<br></div><div dir="ltr">can't tell us his source. We do have to assume that all names<br></div><div dir="ltr">contributed by chdr are copyright violations.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(chdr has added names all around the world, making a harmless survey<br></div><div dir="ltr">unlikely.)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">For various reasons I neglected to act on this, and was only reminded<br></div><div dir="ltr">now, 5 years later, when DWG received a complaint from a user in Brazil<br></div><div dir="ltr">where chdr has even used "source=google" occasionally. (But as I said,<br></div><div dir="ltr">the suspicion is that Google was used throughout.)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I have now compiled a list of all street names that were contributed by<br></div><div dir="ltr">chdr and are still visible today; we're talking about almost 75,000<br></div><div dir="ltr">street names world wide. The most affected countries are:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 18023 "United States of America"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 16345 "Mexico"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 15109 "Brazil"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 6791 "RSA"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2802 "Spain"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2614 "Australia"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1923 "Argentina"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1673 "Nigeria"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1569 "India"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1441 "Canada"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 954 "Malaysia"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 744 "Botswana"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 717 "Philippines"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 619 "Indonesia"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 553 "Italy"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 414 "Turkey"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 290 "Hungary"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 284 "Chile"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 250 "Kenya"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 127 "Saudi Arabia"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 107 "Paraguay"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 106 "Panama"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 100 "Morocco"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I've left out those countries with less than 100 affected ways.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">For the US, I can break it down by state:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 5696 "Arizona"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 5116 "Texas"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2294 "New York"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1164 "District of Columbia"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 740 "Iowa"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 494 "Colorado"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 416 "New Jersey"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 339 "Illinois"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 268 "Michigan"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 239 "Pennsylvania"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 181 "Missouri"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 147 "Georgia"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 129 "New Mexico"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 123 "North Carolina"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 115 "California"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 106 "Virginia"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The breakdown for Mexico:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 7749 "Baja California"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2084 "Puebla"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1964 "Chihuahua"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1539 "Coahuila"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1161 "Mexico"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1040 "Chiapas"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 342 "Tamaulipas"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 241 "Sonora"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 185 "San Luis Potosi"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 129 "New Mexico"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">and Brazil:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 10904 "São Paulo"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2605 "Paraná"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 945 "Rio de Janeiro"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 270 "Rio Grande do Sul"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 154 "Goiás"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">and South Africa:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 4422 "Gauteng"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 750 "KwaZulu-Natal"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 600 "Eastern Cape"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 439 "Western Cape"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 400 "Northern Cape"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 179 "Mpumalanga"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">- each time leaving out a couple others under 100.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">We believe that only names, not geometries have been taken from other<br></div><div dir="ltr">maps so we'll remove and redact the names only. In identifying "names<br></div><div dir="ltr">contributed by chdr" I took care to really only pick up the names that<br></div><div dir="ltr">were introduced by them, not names that were there before, and also when<br></div><div dir="ltr">chdr split a way that had a name I will make sure that the newly created<br></div><div dir="ltr">way doesn't count as "named by chdr". Additionally, I have ignored those<br></div><div dir="ltr">cases where chdr simply performed a TIGER expansion (St->Street etc) of<br></div><div dir="ltr">a name that was there before.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">My process has two weak points (that I am aware of):<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">1. It doesn't properly "follow" a chrdr-contributed name through way<br></div><div dir="ltr">splits performed by other users; if someone has split a way created by<br></div><div dir="ltr">chdr, then the name will remain on the bit that was created by this<br></div><div dir="ltr">user. This is somewhat unsatisfying but after having manually checked a<br></div><div dir="ltr">random sample I think the problem is small enough to be ignored.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">2. It is possible that, like with a recent case in Switzerland where I<br></div><div dir="ltr">had to do a similar redaction, some of these chdr-contributed names will<br></div><div dir="ltr">have been confirmed by others in a survey, i.e. someone else surveyed<br></div><div dir="ltr">the area and checked the name, but saw no need to change it in any way<br></div><div dir="ltr">since it was already correct. Sadly my process will now remove the name<br></div><div dir="ltr">even though, had the name not been there in the first place, that person<br></div><div dir="ltr">could have added the name. This is not nice but I don't see how it could<br></div><div dir="ltr">be avoided.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Here's a list of way IDs affected, with country and state:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/chdr.details" target="_blank">http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/chdr.details</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I am trying to keep the damage to OSM to a minimum while at the same<br></div><div dir="ltr">time respecting copyright. If anyone wants to spot check a few names in<br></div><div dir="ltr">their area and can suggest a refinement of the process that would leave<br></div><div dir="ltr">more names in place because there's reason to assume they are legit, I'm<br></div><div dir="ltr">all ears.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It has been suggested to me that even if names in the US were taken<br></div><div dir="ltr">from Google, Google would in turn have had them from TIGER and hence we<br></div><div dir="ltr">could simply leave them be. I am not convinced of this reasoning but<br></div><div dir="ltr">willing to hear that case argued.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It is sad that chdr isn't available for comment but I must take their<br></div><div dir="ltr">silence as an admission of wrongdoing. I will fire off another message<br></div><div dir="ltr">to them pointing to this thread.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Bye<br></div><div dir="ltr">Frederik<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div dir="ltr">Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a ymailto="mailto:frederik@remote.org" href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a> ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">talk mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a ymailto="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a><br></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>