<div dir="ltr"><div>Well, you kind of can fix one with the other - by introducing a better tool and disabling some of the autofixes in JOSM (very easy to do). A more complex approach would clearly require a separate topic(s) and a substantial dev involvement. </div><div><br></div><div>P.S. No, <a href="https://master.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/">https://master.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/</a> doesn't have any real data (it shows maps from live servers, but editing shows just a few objects).</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:36 AM, Tobias Zwick <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:osm@westnordost.de" target="_blank">osm@westnordost.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I get your point, especially regarding the appliance of the JOSM<br>
fix-button as a "by-the-way" fixing.<br>
<br>
Though, you can't fix possible issues with of one tool by introducing<br>
another tool. People will not stop using (that feature of) JOSM. That is<br>
why I think, if you think you detected a problematic issue there in that<br>
editor, it should be discussed in a separate topic.<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
On 17/10/2017 00:57, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:<br>
> Michael, I can only judge by my own experience adding validation autofix<br>
> rules - I added a number of Wikipedia tag auto cleanups to JOSM, and<br>
> they were reviewed by one or two JOSM developers and merged, probably<br>
> because they were deemed benign. I don't know about the other rules,<br>
> but I suspect many of them also went this route. Should have they been<br>
> discussed more widely? I don't know, but that question is complicated,<br>
> just like "what is a local community?" question. What a few devs may see<br>
> as benign, others may say needs a discussion, right?<br>
><br>
> Mass editing is a different matter. We consider mass editing when one<br>
> person goes out to fix something everywhere in the world. But when we<br>
> provide a tool that automatically fixes something that you are looking<br>
> at, we don't view it as such. Or at least we don't view it when it<br>
> happens as part of JOSM, but we do when it happens in my new tool. Of<br>
> course there is an important difference - JOSM doesn't guide you towards<br>
> those cases.<br>
><br>
> I think massive "by-the-way" fixing is far worse than the targeted fix<br>
> of a single issue.<br>
><br>
> When you want to fix a single issue in many places, you become a subject<br>
> matter expert. You know all about that change, how it interacts with<br>
> other tags, what to watch out for, how to handle bad values, etc. For<br>
> example, when fixing wikipedia tags, you would see the types of mistakes<br>
> people make, wrong prefixes people use, incorrect url encodings, hash<br>
> tags in urls, incorrect multiple values, ... . When you simply click<br>
> "fix" because JOSM validator tells you it can fix it automatically, you<br>
> don't have that knowledge, so it effectively becomes a distributed<br>
> mechanical edit without the "reject" capability. My tool tries to<br>
> address this - to build domain experts in a narrow field, and let those<br>
> experts review changes one by one. I do not discount the value of local<br>
> knowledge, but it is not a panacea - you must be both to make<br>
> intelligent choices, and in some cases, the domain knowledge is more<br>
> important than the knowledge of a specific locale.<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Michael Reichert<br>
</div></div><div><div class="h5">> <<a href="mailto:osm-ml@michreichert.de">osm-ml@michreichert.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:osm-ml@michreichert.de">osm-ml@michreichert.de</a><wbr>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Yuri,<br>
><br>
> Am 16.10.2017 um 16:02 schrieb Yuri Astrakhan:<br>
> > Rory, most of those queries were copied from the current JOSM validator<br>
> > autofixes. I don't think they were discussed, but they might have been<br>
> > mass applied without much thought by all sorts of editors.<br>
><br>
> Could you please give examples for (a) the mass appliance of these rules<br>
> and (b) rules which have not been discussed but should have been<br>
> discussed?<br>
> > There are two ways to use the tool - you can write your own query, run it,<br>
> > and fix whatever it is you want to fix. That's the power user mode -<br>
> > anything goes, no different from JOSM or Level0. And there is another one -<br>
> > where you go to osm wiki, read the instructions, find the task you may want<br>
> > to work on, and go at it. The community reviews wiki content, tags<br>
> > different pages with different explanation or warning boxes, etc. The<br>
> > discussion could still be on the forum, or here, or in IRC, ....<br>
><br>
> Just for future readers: IRC and Telegram channels are no replacement<br>
> for a mailing list or a forum with a public readable archive where you<br>
> can look up the discussions years later.<br>
><br>
> Best regards<br>
><br>
> Michael<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten<br>
> ausgenommen)<br>
> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)<br>
><br>
><br>
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