<div dir="ltr">Frederik, once again you are using your position and mailing list as a tribune, speaking to others instead of speaking to me. I posted [1] my initial idea/tool, and you immediately wrote a large, mostly personal attack [2], rather than something like [3] - which also criticized, but helped guide it forward. Most of the issues you mention in [2] have long been addressed, but you don't care to discuss the actual changes - you already made up your mind that it's evil, and you haven't replied to a single attempt at a substantive communication. I even offered to video talk to you directly, hoping that an understanding could be reached, but alas.<div><br></div><div>I think your emails strongly polarized community. I kept changing and adapting Sophox based on the received feedback, including yours. I don't think you have ever changed the rhetoric or tried to gain understanding or a compromise. People come to the project, bring new ideas, and try to fix issues they see as important to them. Instead of trying to understand and adapt, several hard-liners have taken the "this is not how it's done around here" approach, and forced people out.</div><div><br></div><div>Accusations are easy - we can spew them thousands at a time. Refuting them one by one takes much more effort. Saying that I jump topics many times doesn't make it so. I am very consistently discussing just one thing - Sophox [4], and how it can help make OSM better. Tons of people want to runs bots on OSM, but Sophox tries to find a safe middle ground between bots and humans, addressing the problems that are clearly there (otherwise all these tools wouldn't have been created).</div><div><br></div><div><div>[1] <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079145.html" target="_blank">https://lists.<wbr>openstreetmap.org/pipermail/<wbr>talk/2017-October/079145.html</a></div><div>[2] <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079146.html" target="_blank">https://lists.<wbr>openstreetmap.org/pipermail/<wbr>talk/2017-October/079146.html</a></div><div>[3] <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079172.html" target="_blank">https://lists.<wbr>openstreetmap.org/pipermail/<wbr>talk/2017-October/079172.html</a></div></div><div>[4] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox" target="_blank">https://wiki.<wbr>openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox</a></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Frederik Ramm <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
On 11/13/2017 10:58 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:<br>
> Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument.<br>
<br>
Yuri, I think at this point it is time for me to stop reading your<br>
contributions here. You are not genuinely trying to understand; this is<br>
just a smoke-screen. You are trying to win an argument here by cleverly<br>
jumping from topic to topic, putting words in people's mouths, and if<br>
that's not enough you try to simply write 20x more than anybody else<br>
hoping to wear everyone out.<br>
<br>
This mailing list is not a high school debate club, however much you<br>
treat it like one, and you've abused OpenStreetMap as your playground<br>
for far too long already starting when you first lied to me about<br>
stopping your mass wikidata tag additions. I'm tired of it and I won't<br>
make any further attempts to explain things to you.<br>
<br>
Just in case you are tempted to interpret future silence from me as a<br>
silent agreement - don't. Ever.<br>
<br>
Bye<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Frederik<br>
<br>
--<br>
Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a> ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<br>
<br>
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