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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Martin,<br>
<br>
Before continuing this discussion further, I would advise to read
the amazing article "The demise of the nation state" by Rana
Dasgupta available via this link:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta">https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta</a><br>
<br>
The issue of national state boundaries is more profound and
ubiquitous than it may seem at first sight. This topic is
controversial and complicated, and Rana Dasgupta's analyses
provides some good starting-point insights.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Oleksiy<br>
<br>
On 21.10.18 16:12, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:71C05412-62FE-4F4C-8D05-D423EECCA52E@gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr"><span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>we all know how sensible the topic of disputed boundaries
can be (they are not necessarily a big problem, many boundary
disputes like between Italy and France about the summit of
Mont Blanc / Monte Bianco, have little bearing on the actual
life of people).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Therefore we can all be satisfied there is clear guidance
from the board how to deal with this: the local situation
determines how we map, and the OSMF is explicit here:
“National borders are particularly sensitive. Currently, we
record one set that, in OpenStreetMap contributor opinion, is
most widely internationally recognised and best meets
realities on the ground, generally meaning physical control.”</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.</a>pdf </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When I recently looked at Crimea I noticed it is still part
of the Ucraine in OSM: <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/60199"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/60199</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As many might know, the current boundary situation for
Crimea was frozen 4 years ago “for a short time” by the DWG
and so I asked them about their current position 2 months ago,
and after I got no reply, tried to remind them 5 weeks ago,
but have not yet gotten any reply, so I am now opening this
thread here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IMHO, for consistency and credibility, we should either
recognize that Russia is actually controlling Crimea, or we
should update the disputed borders information. As I believe
the general concept of ground truth for admin boundaries was a
good idea, I would tend to the former.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also believe the actual situation has already been
ignored for too long. When the thing is still dynamic or/and
we’re in the middle of a conflict it can be wise to step back
and see for some time how things are evolving, but 4 years are
a lot of time, something like one year would seem more
reasonable.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What do you think?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers, Martin <br>
<br>
<div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">sent from a phone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Begin forwarded message:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><b>From:</b> Martin Koppenhoefer <<a
href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date:</b> 20. August 2018 at 10:42:33 CEST<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:data@osmfoundation.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">data@osmfoundation.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> <b>DWG policy on Crimea</b><br>
<br>
</div>
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<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dear members of the DWG,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>as of this question in the help forum:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<a
href="https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/65436/what-is-the-current-position-of-the-dataworkinggroup-on-crimea"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/65436/what-is-the-current-position-of-the-dataworkinggroup-on-crimea</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I kindly invite you to reconsider and eventually
update your position on the situation in Crimea.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As you have stated in 2014, this should not be the
long term way to deal with the situation, and short term
is probably coming to an end. There is clear guidance by
the OSMF board how to deal with disputed boundaries (as
the situation seems to be more stable than some would
have liked).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My motivation is not promoting the Russian point of
view, but to act predictably and consistent wrt sensible
topics.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you,</div>
<div>cheers,</div>
<div>Martin </div>
</div>
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