<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Hi All,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thank you everyone for your emails and comments so far both on and off list.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Here is more information for your consideration prepared by @GOwin and some mappers from Talk-Asia </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-asia/2019-January/000015.html">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-asia/2019-January/000015.html</a><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Best regards </div><div dir="auto">Mishari</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Erwin Olario</strong> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:govvin@gmail.com">govvin@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 15:11<br>Subject: [Talk-asia] Grab’s GlobalLogic OSM team edits in Thailand<br>To: <<a href="mailto:talk-asia@openstreetmap.org">talk-asia@openstreetmap.org</a>><br></div><br><br><span>The original document (in original formatting) from which the following text was copied is at: <a href="https://hackmd.io/s/HkZmHZ5z4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://hackmd.io/s/HkZmHZ5z4</a></span><div><br></div><div>The following summary is a synthesis of the individual assessments made by the volunteer mappers. I am responsible for any errors you may find in this document. The invidual assessments are available through their respective links.</div><div><br></div><div>We are sharing these findings with the rest of the Asian OSM communities with the hope of promoting open discussions, and constructive engagement for all parties. We feel that many other (Asian) communities can benefit from the exchange.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div>Erwin</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. </div><div>Link to Supaplex's review notes are unavailable as of this writing. <br><br>---<br><br>Grab operates in Southeast Asia, and their OpenStreetMap editing<br>operations are contracted to Global Logic. They have conducted editing<br>in several other countries in south-east Asia prior to their foray in<br>Thailand. These never came un-noticed by locals and didnt’t always have<br>a great start [0], but in time, developed into positive working relationship<br>with these communities.<br><br>In December 2018, an article was published in TechCrunch [1] that described<br>the edits made by Grab’s contractor, Global Logic, as “absolute<br>disaster.” This tickled the interest of some mappers from several Asian<br>communities, and they agreed to conduct their own assessments of said<br>edits in Thailand.<br><br><br>Changeset assessments by volunteers<br><br>The following volunteers agreed to conduct their own indpendent<br>assessments of the changesets made by acknowledged team members [2] of Grab<br>Logic. These volunteers have extensive experience in OpenStreetMap, and<br>are known to be active OSM advocates within their respective<br>communities.<br><br> Reviewer OSM username Assessments<br> -------------------- -------------- -------------<br> ABROKWA, Kelvin Muzirian [4] Notes [5]<br> CHEN, DennisChen Supaplex[6] Notes [7]<br> DWIJANANTO, Adityo Adityo[8] Notes [9]<br> OLARIO, Erwin GOwin[10] Notes[11]<br> SAMBALE, Maning Maning[12] Notes[13]<br><br>The instruction to volunteers was to randomly select changesets using an<br>OsmCha filter [3] of un-reviewed changeseets of Grab’s Global Logic team in<br>Thailand, numbering about 7,000 edits. And to use OsmCha to verify said<br>changesets, and leave comments on them to record observations, if<br>necessary.<br><br><br>Conclusion<br><br>As with any other countries with active mapping volunteers, the Thai<br>mapping community is similarly lucky to have their very own active,<br>diligent, and prolific mappers who make time to map their favorite<br>neighbourhoods. We’ve frequently seen usernames which became familar<br>after several changeset validation, and we kept seeing the same names<br>again and again. Kudos to these contributors.<br><br>Overall, there is no substantive evidence to support the allegation of<br>massive detrimental edits, or systematic errors by Grab’s Global Logic<br>OpenStreetMap editing team. The errors found appear to be isolated, and<br>though there were unusual edits (that aren’t necessarily bad), there are<br>some bad edits that should have been caught by their internal Quality<br>Assurance (QA) team - the onus of primary validation of their team edits<br>should not be on the OSM community, but Grab’s Global Logic editing<br>team.<br><br>A few changesets were marked as bad, but none were considered critical.<br>Those marked as bad should be immediately addressed by Grab’s OSM team.<br><br>Some unusual behaviors were noticed: </div><div>* deleting road segments and<br>re-adding them; </div><div>* redundantly adding oneway=yes to roundabouts; </div><div>* their JOSM settings appear some users use a different/edited source strings<br>for the same imagery, instead of what’s available by default from JOSM.</div><div><br>These are unusual, but nothing major or critical.<br><br>There are instances of inconsistencies with imagery interpretation:<br>tagging, use of various imagery and adjusting for offsets. The mappers’<br>training and on-boarding process can improve in these areas, and all<br>other mappers, ideally could have re-orientation to familiarize<br>themselves with the issues raised.<br><br>The Grab’s OSM team should look into supplementing their imagery source<br>with Mapillary/OpenStreetCam imagery collected by the local community.<br>They’ve been helpful to the validators in many instances during this<br>validation effort. Their QA team should take advantage of those, as<br>well.<br><br>This is not to say that the complaints from the local community are<br>unsound - local knowledge trumps imagery interpretation - feedback from<br>the community should always be considered, and investigated closer.<br>Remote mapping, validation and on-the-ground validation play an<br>important role in the mapping process. Grab can do better with engaging<br>the local community, or communicating better whatever assistance or help<br>they might need. Although, they should be wary of imposing these needs<br>on the community.<br><br>Validating edits from organized editing activities is primarily a<br>responsibility of the project initiators, and Grab’s Global Logic OSM<br>data team (as with any other organized editing effort) should be more<br>mindful of edits made by mappers with local knowledge when the imagery<br>shows something else (especially from trusted and prolific contributors)<br>who have this advantage. If in doubt, communicate with the editors.<br><br><br>Recommendations<br><br>- The internal Quality Assurance team can do better catching the<br> issues we caught, and it may seem like a refresher course would be<br> very helpful.<br>- Give current mapping team members a briefing about the issues<br> identified by the individual assessors, and how to address them.<br>- Improve communications and engagement efforts with local mapping<br> communities, to avoid misunderstanding.<br><br>[0]: <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/harrymahar/diary/43671" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/harrymahar/diary/43671</a><br>[1]: <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/19/grab-maps-osm-thailand-southeast-asia/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/19/grab-maps-osm-thailand-southeast-asia/</a><br>[2]: <a href="https://github.com/GRABOSM/Grab-Data/blob/master/Grab%20Data%20Team" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://github.com/GRABOSM/Grab-Data/blob/master/Grab%20Data%20Team</a><br>[3]: <a href="https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=739470d2-4cb5-4c40-93b8-205adc88f264" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=739470d2-4cb5-4c40-93b8-205adc88f264</a><br>[4]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?muzirian" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?muzirian</a><br>[5]: <a href="https://gist.github.com/muzirian/04804d765968b0e5764eb0e1213ef51f" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://gist.github.com/muzirian/04804d765968b0e5764eb0e1213ef51f</a><br>[6]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Supaplex" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Supaplex</a><br>[7]: https://<br>[8]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?adityo" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?adityo</a><br>[9]: <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rI7YuJ5_g8s6HrNUOqRFVoFDUyYxetW0nO1Fk6Fs7A/edit" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rI7YuJ5_g8s6HrNUOqRFVoFDUyYxetW0nO1Fk6Fs7A/edit</a><br>[10]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?GOwin" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?GOwin</a><br>[11]: <a href="https://gist.github.com/govvin/6c8c9df8106c667b6c28823131419d1e" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://gist.github.com/govvin/6c8c9df8106c667b6c28823131419d1e</a><br>[12]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?maning" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?maning</a><br>[13]: <a href="https://gist.github.com/maning/61d9a1962454159b33ffa046bdeb092c" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://gist.github.com/maning/61d9a1962454159b33ffa046bdeb092c</a></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="m_8169025178492023584gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p>/Erwin Olario<br></p><p dir="ltr">e: <a href="mailto:erwin@ngnuity.xyz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">erwin@ngnuity.xyz</a> | v/m: <a href="https://t.me/GOwin" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://t.me/GOwin</a> | s: <a href="https://mstdn.io/@GOwin" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mstdn.io/@GOwin</a><br></p>
</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-Asia mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-Asia@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Talk-Asia@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-asia" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-asia</a><br>
</div></div><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Erwin Olario" <<a href="mailto:govvin@gmail.com">govvin@gmail.com</a>><br>Date: Jan 15, 2019 15:11<br>Subject: [Talk-asia] Grab’s GlobalLogic OSM team edits in Thailand<br>To: <<a href="mailto:talk-asia@openstreetmap.org">talk-asia@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>Cc: <br><br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>The original document (in original formatting) from which the following text was copied is at: <a href="https://hackmd.io/s/HkZmHZ5z4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://hackmd.io/s/HkZmHZ5z4</a></span><div><br></div><div>The following summary is a synthesis of the individual assessments made by the volunteer mappers. I am responsible for any errors you may find in this document. The invidual assessments are available through their respective links.</div><div><br></div><div>We are sharing these findings with the rest of the Asian OSM communities with the hope of promoting open discussions, and constructive engagement for all parties. We feel that many other (Asian) communities can benefit from the exchange.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div>Erwin</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. </div><div>Link to Supaplex's review notes are unavailable as of this writing. <br><br>---<br><br>Grab operates in Southeast Asia, and their OpenStreetMap editing<br>operations are contracted to Global Logic. They have conducted editing<br>in several other countries in south-east Asia prior to their foray in<br>Thailand. These never came un-noticed by locals and didnt’t always have<br>a great start [0], but in time, developed into positive working relationship<br>with these communities.<br><br>In December 2018, an article was published in TechCrunch [1] that described<br>the edits made by Grab’s contractor, Global Logic, as “absolute<br>disaster.” This tickled the interest of some mappers from several Asian<br>communities, and they agreed to conduct their own assessments of said<br>edits in Thailand.<br><br><br>Changeset assessments by volunteers<br><br>The following volunteers agreed to conduct their own indpendent<br>assessments of the changesets made by acknowledged team members [2] of Grab<br>Logic. These volunteers have extensive experience in OpenStreetMap, and<br>are known to be active OSM advocates within their respective<br>communities.<br><br> Reviewer OSM username Assessments<br> -------------------- -------------- -------------<br> ABROKWA, Kelvin Muzirian [4] Notes [5]<br> CHEN, DennisChen Supaplex[6] Notes [7]<br> DWIJANANTO, Adityo Adityo[8] Notes [9]<br> OLARIO, Erwin GOwin[10] Notes[11]<br> SAMBALE, Maning Maning[12] Notes[13]<br><br>The instruction to volunteers was to randomly select changesets using an<br>OsmCha filter [3] of un-reviewed changeseets of Grab’s Global Logic team in<br>Thailand, numbering about 7,000 edits. And to use OsmCha to verify said<br>changesets, and leave comments on them to record observations, if<br>necessary.<br><br><br>Conclusion<br><br>As with any other countries with active mapping volunteers, the Thai<br>mapping community is similarly lucky to have their very own active,<br>diligent, and prolific mappers who make time to map their favorite<br>neighbourhoods. We’ve frequently seen usernames which became familar<br>after several changeset validation, and we kept seeing the same names<br>again and again. Kudos to these contributors.<br><br>Overall, there is no substantive evidence to support the allegation of<br>massive detrimental edits, or systematic errors by Grab’s Global Logic<br>OpenStreetMap editing team. The errors found appear to be isolated, and<br>though there were unusual edits (that aren’t necessarily bad), there are<br>some bad edits that should have been caught by their internal Quality<br>Assurance (QA) team - the onus of primary validation of their team edits<br>should not be on the OSM community, but Grab’s Global Logic editing<br>team.<br><br>A few changesets were marked as bad, but none were considered critical.<br>Those marked as bad should be immediately addressed by Grab’s OSM team.<br><br>Some unusual behaviors were noticed: </div><div>* deleting road segments and<br>re-adding them; </div><div>* redundantly adding oneway=yes to roundabouts; </div><div>* their JOSM settings appear some users use a different/edited source strings<br>for the same imagery, instead of what’s available by default from JOSM.</div><div><br>These are unusual, but nothing major or critical.<br><br>There are instances of inconsistencies with imagery interpretation:<br>tagging, use of various imagery and adjusting for offsets. The mappers’<br>training and on-boarding process can improve in these areas, and all<br>other mappers, ideally could have re-orientation to familiarize<br>themselves with the issues raised.<br><br>The Grab’s OSM team should look into supplementing their imagery source<br>with Mapillary/OpenStreetCam imagery collected by the local community.<br>They’ve been helpful to the validators in many instances during this<br>validation effort. Their QA team should take advantage of those, as<br>well.<br><br>This is not to say that the complaints from the local community are<br>unsound - local knowledge trumps imagery interpretation - feedback from<br>the community should always be considered, and investigated closer.<br>Remote mapping, validation and on-the-ground validation play an<br>important role in the mapping process. Grab can do better with engaging<br>the local community, or communicating better whatever assistance or help<br>they might need. Although, they should be wary of imposing these needs<br>on the community.<br><br>Validating edits from organized editing activities is primarily a<br>responsibility of the project initiators, and Grab’s Global Logic OSM<br>data team (as with any other organized editing effort) should be more<br>mindful of edits made by mappers with local knowledge when the imagery<br>shows something else (especially from trusted and prolific contributors)<br>who have this advantage. If in doubt, communicate with the editors.<br><br><br>Recommendations<br><br>- The internal Quality Assurance team can do better catching the<br> issues we caught, and it may seem like a refresher course would be<br> very helpful.<br>- Give current mapping team members a briefing about the issues<br> identified by the individual assessors, and how to address them.<br>- Improve communications and engagement efforts with local mapping<br> communities, to avoid misunderstanding.<br><br>[0]: <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/harrymahar/diary/43671" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/harrymahar/diary/43671</a><br>[1]: <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/19/grab-maps-osm-thailand-southeast-asia/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/19/grab-maps-osm-thailand-southeast-asia/</a><br>[2]: <a href="https://github.com/GRABOSM/Grab-Data/blob/master/Grab%20Data%20Team" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://github.com/GRABOSM/Grab-Data/blob/master/Grab%20Data%20Team</a><br>[3]: <a href="https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=739470d2-4cb5-4c40-93b8-205adc88f264" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=739470d2-4cb5-4c40-93b8-205adc88f264</a><br>[4]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?muzirian" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?muzirian</a><br>[5]: <a href="https://gist.github.com/muzirian/04804d765968b0e5764eb0e1213ef51f" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://gist.github.com/muzirian/04804d765968b0e5764eb0e1213ef51f</a><br>[6]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Supaplex" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Supaplex</a><br>[7]: https://<br>[8]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?adityo" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?adityo</a><br>[9]: <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rI7YuJ5_g8s6HrNUOqRFVoFDUyYxetW0nO1Fk6Fs7A/edit" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rI7YuJ5_g8s6HrNUOqRFVoFDUyYxetW0nO1Fk6Fs7A/edit</a><br>[10]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?GOwin" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?GOwin</a><br>[11]: <a href="https://gist.github.com/govvin/6c8c9df8106c667b6c28823131419d1e" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://gist.github.com/govvin/6c8c9df8106c667b6c28823131419d1e</a><br>[12]: <a href="http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?maning" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?maning</a><br>[13]: <a href="https://gist.github.com/maning/61d9a1962454159b33ffa046bdeb092c" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://gist.github.com/maning/61d9a1962454159b33ffa046bdeb092c</a></div><div class="signature-text">-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="m_8169025178492023584gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p>/Erwin Olario<br></p><p dir="ltr">e: <a href="mailto:erwin@ngnuity.xyz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">erwin@ngnuity.xyz</a> | v/m: <a href="https://t.me/GOwin" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://t.me/GOwin</a> | s: <a href="https://mstdn.io/@GOwin" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mstdn.io/@GOwin</a><br></p>
</div></div>
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Talk-Asia mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-Asia@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Talk-Asia@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-asia" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-asia</a><br>
</div></blockquote></div><br>