<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">6 Dec 2019, 09:55 by dieterdreist@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div class=""><div class="" dir="ltr">Am Fr., 6. Dez. 2019 um 08:08 Uhr schrieb Maarten Deen <<a href="mailto:mdeen@xs4all.nl" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">mdeen@xs4all.nl</a>>:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left">On 2019-12-05 22:12, Tomek wrote:<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">The adjacent Caspian sea is displayed as دریاچه خزر which is not the <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> complete name tag (Каспийское море / Хәзәр дәнизи / دریاچه خزر) but <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> looks to me the name:fa (Farsi).<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> For me, that is very bad since I can not read Farsi so I don't know what <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> is written there. Same applies to Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and a whole <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> host of languages that do not use the latin script.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>it can be done (and is already done in some context) to display names in your own language (or another fallback) in case there aren't letters in latin script (even an automatic transliteration at display time may be better than not being able to read the script at all). <br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">Yes, this is a limitation of this specific rendering.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left">IMHO Openstreetmap does try to be politically and nation independent.<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> Still, it is a Good Idea to have one standard (language) to communicate <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> or define things, like everything meant for an international public in <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> the wiki is English and the tag system is English.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>you should argue why it is a good idea to have _one_ standard language in the project. IMHO it excludes many billions of people from participating<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">While it is problematic it is hard for me to imagine a better version. I am pretty sure that for example<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">using Polish/Korean/etc words where English one exists would not help.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left">but I am not sure we could not do better at integrating people from different cultural contexts. <br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">Oh, that is certainly possible to improve.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left">It is also a sign we are sending out to the others, whether there is "the main language English", or whether we communicate that every language is accepted.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">While current situation excludes from this specific mailing list people unable to communicate in<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">written English I doubt that "any language goes" would improve overall situation.<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">Separate channels for various languages seem to be a better idea. <br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div class=""><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left">> Suggestion 2b: use the name in a neutral language, i.e. planned or<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> > extinct: Lingvo Internacia Esperanto (EO), Interlingua (IA), Ido (IO),<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> > Latin (LA), I don't know Latin, so I would need help.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>none of these is "neutral" and more importantly, none of these seems "inclusive" and suitable to broaden participation, they are all either elitist, or at least spoken by very little people, and likely both.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">+1<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">And it would be kind of weird to decide that English is imperialistic therefore we should use Latin<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">to avoid this specific problem.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div class=""><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left">> for other places:<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> > Suggestion 4a: remove the label "wikipedia" and leave only "wikidata",<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> I agree that it is strange to have (e.g. for the Caspian Sea <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> multipolygon 3987743) wikipedia=en:Caspian Sea when it is not in <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> England. Is there a reason for that other than historic? Since there is <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> also a wikidata link.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I am strongly opposing the idea of removing wikipedia article links when there are wikidata feature links. The former are human readable<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">Yes, wikidata tag may be useful but it is an alphanumeric gibberish not readable by humans.<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">Human readable tags are very useful, this way human is able to easier verify whatever tags<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">are blatantly wrong.<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">And based on my experience - English language link<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">may be a compromise. Some border peaks/rivers of Poland have also link to English wikipedia as<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">a compromise between mappers from Poland and Ukraine/Belarus/Russia/Chechia/etc.<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">It is better than switching between pl: and ru: link in a pointless edit war. <br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div class=""><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left">> Suggestion 4b: add links in a neutral language: wikipedia=ia: Mar<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> > Nigre<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"> Why is Anguilla a neutral language? <br></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">+ 1<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div class=""><div style="16px" text-align="left">> Suggestion 4c: add more links, but in which languages?<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">if "links" is about wikipedia article references, there is already the rule that one link is sufficient where the other language article is linked as corresponding in wikipedia.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">+1<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div> </body>
</html>