<div dir="ltr"><div>Simon,</div><div><br></div><div>I guess with small overlap you mean it's only about people who use <a href="http://osm.org">osm.org</a> tiles, not people who use other services?</div><div>While that is true, the double whammy of both heavily using resources and also not attributing does seem like a good subgroup to start with some measures.</div><div><br></div><div>In the case of the OSM.org tiles, I suppose this is regulated by <a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use</a> . At first glance I didn't see anything providing people who do not respect those terms. Am I missing something, or is this a naive approach to the problem?</div><div>Even if the ToU's could be lacking in detail, couldn't we simply change them? The final section talks about changes, which we seem to be able to just do when we want to.</div><div><br></div><div>I would think the biggest challenge on OSMF side would be the workload for OWG/sysadmins.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Joost<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op zo 8 mrt. 2020 om 12:18 schreef Simon Poole <<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch">simon@poole.ch</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Just for the record: <br>
</p>
<p>Enforcing attribution for services that you are providing
directly (aka tiles in some form) only has a small overlap with
the goals of the attribution guideline, and the avenues open to
you depend on your ToUs / contracts with your users and the legal
situation in the countries you are providing the service in.</p>
<p>I would be very very wary of doing anything that deliberately
defaces a web site without consulting with a local (to the country
the web site is in) lawyer, particularly if the message implies
wrong doing. The safe, I admit also the less fun, option, is to
simply block access after giving any required notice.</p>
<p>Simon <br>
</p>
<div>Am 08.03.2020 um 11:04 schrieb Yves:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
This looks at first as a nuisance that could be perceived as a bad
move, but the feedback you're receiving rather prove the contrary.<br>
Well done!<br>
Ps: would you share your nginx partial redirect, I may consider it
for Opensnowmap tiles policy? <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">Le 8 mars 2020 10:14:58 GMT+01:00,
Christian Quest <a href="mailto:cquest@openstreetmap.fr" target="_blank"><cquest@openstreetmap.fr></a> a écrit :
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p>Here is a hort report on this experiment...</p>
<p>I started a week ago by searching OSM France tile server
logs for referer and checked manually if the map on the
refering page was correctly attributed.</p>
<p>This allowed me to create a short list of 20 entries of
sites using the french styled tiles and the humanitarian
tiles (yes, it is made by OSM France).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I then modified our nginx based proxy_cache configuration,
to redirect some tiles to an "attribution tile" only for the
domain in the list.</p>
<p>For two of them, I tweeted about it... the most visible one
is the moroco yellow page service, generating a little less
than a million daily tile requests on our servers.</p>
<p><a href="https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888</a></p>
<p>In less than 24 hours, the attribution appeared and I
removed them from the list.</p>
<p><a href="https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234779931537739776" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234779931537739776</a></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Then I included an email address in the attribution
reminder tile... and got emails back within a few hours.</p>
<p>Some were asking how to do the attribution, others telling
me the attribution was now ok and asking how to remove the
reminder tiles.</p>
<p>In my answers, I also remind that our tile service made by
volunteers on donated hardware is not unlimited and inviting
them to have a look at switch2osm to setup their own tile
server or use a commercial provider.<br>
</p>
<p>Up to now, nobody complained :)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Yesterday, I've started automating attribution checking
using selenium. For each referer, a python script loads the
page, searches for tiles, then looks for attribution text or
link. The result is stored in a postgresql database which
allows to group referers by url, hostname and ip.<br>
</p>
<p>The attribution percentage I currently see is around 70-80%
which is not that bad.</p>
<p>My next major step is to use the same technique to remind
about tile usage policy...<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>To do something similar on <a href="http://osm.org" target="_blank">osm.org</a>, a first step is to
extract referers from the cache logs, then use the automated
attribution check to evaluate the situation.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>Le 08/03/2020 à 01:52, Nuno
Caldeira a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">That would be a good option for those that
use third party providers of OSM. But to be honest, from
my experience I highly doubt that even corporate members
of OSMF, like Mapbox would do it, when their client
Facebook (also corporate member of OSMF) after one year
and half, still has maps with lack of attribution or
attributed to HERE, when it's clearly OSM. </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 8 Mar 2020,
00:46 Phil Wyatt, <<a href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com" target="_blank">phil@wyatt-family.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I am
sure others may have seen this 'blacklist'
implementation for showing a reminder about attribution.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234528717604577282" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234528717604577282</a><br>
<br>
Worthy of consideration for <a href="http://openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank">openstreetmap.org</a>?<br>
<br>
Cheers - Phil</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Joost Schouppe</div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/" target="_blank">OpenStreetMap</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/joostjakob" target="_blank">Twitter</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/" target="_blank">Meetup</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>