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<p>As I wrote (conveniently ignored in the noise of the vigilante
rampage): "The safe, I admit also the less fun, option, is to
simply block access after giving any required notice."</p>
<p>Simon<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 11.03.2020 um 14:49 schrieb joost
schouppe:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAO2_g7J6p9=D6UgYOf5KJFjb7vsSV=RGXs2-TBYD5Nc7m6FJhQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>Simon,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I guess with small overlap you mean it's only about people
who use <a href="http://osm.org" moz-do-not-send="true">osm.org</a>
tiles, not people who use other services?</div>
<div>While that is true, the double whammy of both heavily using
resources and also not attributing does seem like a good
subgroup to start with some measures.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the case of the OSM.org tiles, I suppose this is
regulated by <a
href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use</a>
. At first glance I didn't see anything providing people who
do not respect those terms. Am I missing something, or is this
a naive approach to the problem?</div>
<div>Even if the ToU's could be lacking in detail, couldn't we
simply change them? The final section talks about changes,
which we seem to be able to just do when we want to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would think the biggest challenge on OSMF side would be
the workload for OWG/sysadmins.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Joost<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op zo 8 mrt. 2020 om 12:18
schreef Simon Poole <<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">simon@poole.ch</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Just for the record: <br>
</p>
<p>Enforcing attribution for services that you are providing
directly (aka tiles in some form) only has a small overlap
with the goals of the attribution guideline, and the
avenues open to you depend on your ToUs / contracts with
your users and the legal situation in the countries you
are providing the service in.</p>
<p>I would be very very wary of doing anything that
deliberately defaces a web site without consulting with a
local (to the country the web site is in) lawyer,
particularly if the message implies wrong doing. The safe,
I admit also the less fun, option, is to simply block
access after giving any required notice.</p>
<p>Simon <br>
</p>
<div>Am 08.03.2020 um 11:04 schrieb Yves:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> This looks at first as a nuisance
that could be perceived as a bad move, but the feedback
you're receiving rather prove the contrary.<br>
Well done!<br>
Ps: would you share your nginx partial redirect, I may
consider it for Opensnowmap tiles policy? <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">Le 8 mars 2020 10:14:58
GMT+01:00, Christian Quest <a
href="mailto:cquest@openstreetmap.fr" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><cquest@openstreetmap.fr></a>
a écrit :
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt
0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p>Here is a hort report on this experiment...</p>
<p>I started a week ago by searching OSM France tile
server logs for referer and checked manually if the
map on the refering page was correctly attributed.</p>
<p>This allowed me to create a short list of 20
entries of sites using the french styled tiles and
the humanitarian tiles (yes, it is made by OSM
France).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I then modified our nginx based proxy_cache
configuration, to redirect some tiles to an
"attribution tile" only for the domain in the list.</p>
<p>For two of them, I tweeted about it... the most
visible one is the moroco yellow page service,
generating a little less than a million daily tile
requests on our servers.</p>
<p><a
href="https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888</a></p>
<p>In less than 24 hours, the attribution appeared and
I removed them from the list.</p>
<p><a
href="https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234779931537739776"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234779931537739776</a></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Then I included an email address in the attribution
reminder tile... and got emails back within a few
hours.</p>
<p>Some were asking how to do the attribution, others
telling me the attribution was now ok and asking how
to remove the reminder tiles.</p>
<p>In my answers, I also remind that our tile service
made by volunteers on donated hardware is not
unlimited and inviting them to have a look at
switch2osm to setup their own tile server or use a
commercial provider.<br>
</p>
<p>Up to now, nobody complained :)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Yesterday, I've started automating attribution
checking using selenium. For each referer, a python
script loads the page, searches for tiles, then
looks for attribution text or link. The result is
stored in a postgresql database which allows to
group referers by url, hostname and ip.<br>
</p>
<p>The attribution percentage I currently see is
around 70-80% which is not that bad.</p>
<p>My next major step is to use the same technique to
remind about tile usage policy...<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>To do something similar on <a
href="http://osm.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">osm.org</a>, a first step
is to extract referers from the cache logs, then use
the automated attribution check to evaluate the
situation.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>Le 08/03/2020 à 01:52, Nuno Caldeira a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">That would be a good option for
those that use third party providers of OSM. But
to be honest, from my experience I highly doubt
that even corporate members of OSMF, like Mapbox
would do it, when their client Facebook (also
corporate member of OSMF) after one year and half,
still has maps with lack of attribution or
attributed to HERE, when it's clearly OSM. </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 8 Mar
2020, 00:46 Phil Wyatt, <<a
href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">phil@wyatt-family.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I am sure
others may have seen this 'blacklist'
implementation for showing a reminder about
attribution.<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234528717604577282"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234528717604577282</a><br>
<br>
Worthy of consideration for <a
href="http://openstreetmap.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">openstreetmap.org</a>?<br>
<br>
Cheers - Phil</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France</pre>
</blockquote>
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<div dir="ltr">Joost Schouppe</div>
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