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<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>May 24, 2020, 23:57 by f@zz.de:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>At least thats very different in Germany. There is no such thing as<br></div><div>"Stand your ground" in the US legalese. As long as you dont show<br></div><div>clear intend of "out of bounds" e.g. fences, gates or signage<br></div><div>its not a federal offense to walk on private property. You may<br></div><div>still be sent away, ignoring THAT is a federal offense, but until<br></div><div>then there its no legal offense to step on private property.<br></div></blockquote><div>So it is about a road that is without "no entry" signs, not marked <br></div><div>as privately owned, without gate/chain etc?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Tagging it as access=private seems wrong.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>(See ยง123 StGB - https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/123.html)<br></div><blockquote><div>> So as a delivery<br></div><div>> like Amazon Logistics, UPS, FedEx and Co you have to ignore<br></div><div>> access=privates to be able to actually use your driveway,<br></div><div>><br></div><div>Yep.<br></div></blockquote><div>So we tag stuff people are assumed to ignore? We should fix tagging<br></div><div>to make it distinguishable.<br></div></blockquote><div>Depends on your usecase - for routing you may want to inrerpret<br></div><div>access=private on final approach differently.<br></div><div><br></div><div>It may be valuable info for example for a renderer.<br></div><div><br></div><div>But what you want to distinguish here?<br></div><div><br></div><div>"owner has locked gate but orders pizza often, will open gate for delivery" from<br></div><div>"owner has locked gate and never orders deliveries"?<br></div><div><br></div><div>I am probably missing something.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><blockquote><div>> which automatically makes them ignore the power plants service<br></div><div>> as well.<br></div><div>><br></div><div>And this way for routing for worker of power plant asking for a route <br></div><div>to a place of work will continue to work. Is there something missing<br></div><div>that I do not see?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Is access=private supposed to be incorrect in either case?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Its indistinguishable - Thats the problem. A private on a driveway<br></div><div>is definitly something which is not verifyable in most cases<br></div></blockquote><div>Why it is not verifiable?<br></div><div><br></div><div>(it may be a cultural difference, in Poland driveway with restricted <br></div><div>access will have a gate or at least a sign, it is not a driveway with restricted<br></div><div>access otherwise)<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>> So IMHO the advice to tag EVERY driveway with access=private is a very<br></div><blockquote><div>> bad one.<br></div><div>><br></div><div>Yes, driveways that are open to general public (shared driveway without gate or<br></div><div>other restrictions) or to all customers (tourism attraction driveway) should not<br></div><div>be tagged like a private driveway.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>For me a service is by itself not for the general public as the service<br></div><div>article already states. Tagging it with driveway does make it even less<br></div><div>public. It will be not used as through road anyway.<br></div></blockquote><div>I may be a bit unusual here but it is often not true for cyclists and hikers.<br></div><div>They often use serice roads (even driveway segments) that are not private, that is why <br></div><div>distinguishing between driveway accessible to general public and<br></div><div>restricted one is important for me.<br></div><div><br></div><div>For example <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/240494343#map=19/50.06452/19.92326">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/240494343#map=19/50.06452/19.92326</a><br></div><div>(driveway into an university area, signed as living_street is a part of alternative route for<br></div><div>cyclists allowing to skip dual carriageway with heavy trafffic)<br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/174699639#map=19/49.26939/19.98083">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/174699639#map=19/49.26939/19.98083</a><br></div><div>service road (correctly tagged) carrying hiking trails and almost<br></div><div>certainly incorrectly tagged as inaccessible for pedestrians<br></div><div>( <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2205168">https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2205168</a> ).<br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/714080089#map=19/49.28399/20.00194">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/714080089#map=19/49.28399/20.00194</a><br></div><div>correctly tagged driveway, serving as public wheelchair accessible path<br></div><div>toward major tourism attraction (correctly tagged as without access<br></div><div>restrictions<br></div><div><a href="https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaplica_Naj%C5%9Bwi%C4%99tszego_Serca_Jezusa_w_Jaszczur%C3%B3wce#/media/Plik:Kaplica_Jaszczurowka.jpg">https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaplica_Naj%C5%9Bwi%C4%99tszego_Serca_Jezusa_w_Jaszczur%C3%B3wce#/media/Plik:Kaplica_Jaszczurowka.jpg</a>)<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>So there is a difference between a driveway with and without any signs, gates or<br></div><div>fences. If not globally than at least for Germany.<br></div></blockquote><div>Yes, also in Poland there are driveways without any access restrictions<br></div><div>and ones that are restricted to private access and some with more exotic ones.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div><br></div><div>So in case this is very different to Poland i would suggest removing the<br></div><div>driveway from the access examples alltogether and make it a local<br></div><div>issue.<br></div></blockquote><div>Is it still needed? I made some edits to <span class=""><span dir="auto">try
to avoid confusion of </span></span><br></div><div><span class=""><span dir="auto">"private road, as in restricted access" and
"private road, as in privately owned" </span></span><br></div><div><span class=""><span dir="auto">as privately owned roads may be
open and publicly owned may be restricted</span></span>.<br></div> </body>
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