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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Also thanks from my side Mike.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">As of today the help site seems to be
working again but only a few days back it had been seeing the same
problem again for several weeks. Who knows what is causing these
periodic failures. So I'm looking forward to your monitoring and
any possible short-term solution.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">But even if this immediate JS/usability
problem can be fixed there are still so many smaller annoyances
that before long we should still look into migrating the site to a
newer software.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">cheers,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Tobias<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 05.07.2020 um 10:16 schrieb Mateusz
Konieczny via talk:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MBT23NS--3-2@tutanota.com">
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<div>Thanks to entire Ops group for work on this and other things!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>4 Jul 2020, 07:35 by <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mike@teczno.com">mike@teczno.com</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid
#93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;">
<div>Hi Everyone,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since Tobias Wrede started this thread in May, the Ops
group has discussed the Help site during our regular meetings.
We understand the importance of the Q&A site and
acknowledge that the software running it is old and
under-maintained.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In addition to the possibility of moving the site to a new
platform like the ones mentioned in this thread, we’ve also
verified that all past Q&A content can be archived [1]
regardless of future platform and talked about potential
underlying causes of the frontend script problems some users
have experienced [2]. Currently, the Ops group has two initial
conclusions:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) We aren’t able to confirm the extent of the Javascript
problems described in this thread because we lack a front-end
monitoring that would provide this information. Our existing
monitoring extensively covers the underlying server, shenron
[3], alongside superficial uptime measurements [4].<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2) The Q&A server is shared by Trac and SVN services
which are being deprecated over the next month [5].
Deprecating Trac and SVN will allow us to better isolate and
observe problems that Q&A is experiencing, and perhaps
solve them by removing these competing services on one of
OSM’s older pieces of hardware.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Over the next two months, I’ll be watching the thread [2]
for reports of new failures. If these continue past August
when SVN and Trac have been deprecated, we’ll add monitoring
to better understand their cause and determine what work may
be needed to fix or migrate OSM’s Q&A site.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-mike.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Links:<br>
</div>
<div>1. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202006-A">https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202006-A</a> (archiving
report starts at line 173)<br>
</div>
<div>2.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/74831/why-does-the-add-a-new-comment-button-sometimes-not-work">https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/74831/why-does-the-add-a-new-comment-button-sometimes-not-work</a>?
<br>
</div>
<div>3.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap.org/shenron.openstreetmap.org/index.html">https://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap.org/shenron.openstreetmap.org/index.html</a>
<br>
</div>
<div>4. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://uptime.openstreetmap.org">https://uptime.openstreetmap.org</a> <br>
</div>
<div>5.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2020-July/030958.html">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2020-July/030958.html</a>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ops Meeting Minutes:<br>
</div>
<div>- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202005-B">https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202005-B</a> (July 1)<br>
</div>
<div>- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202006-A">https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202006-A</a> (June 4)<br>
</div>
<div>- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202007-A">https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202007-A</a> (May 22)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>On May 20, 2020, at 12:28 AM, Tobias Wrede
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:list@tobias-wrede.de"><list@tobias-wrede.de></a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>we have several channels in OSM to facilitate discussions
and support. First touch point for new users is often
help.openstreetmap.org. Questions relating to mapping in
general, tagging, editors, development, OSM based
applications are asked there and get answered in most cases.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The site is based on OSQA, a software which has not been
maintained in some time. Some application errors have
surface in the past but had to be ignored since no fixes are
coming from OSQA any more. Until now we could live with
that. They were annoying but not critical. There are open
tickets on OSM github to move the help site to some other
framework
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/149">https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/149</a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/377">https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/377</a>) but
there isn't exactly an abundance of volunteers to take care
of that.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Usability of help.openstreetmap.org has now seriously
worsened over the past few days with some js error popping
up for longer and longer times
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/74831/why-does-the-add-a-new-comment-button-sometimes-not-work">https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/74831/why-does-the-add-a-new-comment-button-sometimes-not-work</a>).
Buttons to support formatting questions and answers are
gone, comments cannot be added and moderation functions
(reporting, converting questions to comments etc.) are not
working anymore.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If this continuous we can shut down the site soon. Even
if this problem got resolved somehow it's only a matter of
time until a new problem arises. The site provides a low
entry hurdles place to ask questions that can be solved by
simple answers. I'd hate so see it gone.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm neither a programmer who could help out on the
technical side nor am I involved in OSM organization and
politics to have an idea on how this could be sorted out.
Question around: Can we find someone to take care of the
technical side? Can we involve any of the OSM organizations
to find, maybe pay, someone? Does the community even find it
worthwhile keeping the site?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tobias<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>
</div>
<div>talk mailing list<br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div>michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:<br>
</div>
<div>sf/ca <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mike.teczno.com/contact.html">http://mike.teczno.com/contact.html</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>
</div>
<div>talk mailing list<br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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