<div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">You need to define the requirements and if having open source software is a top priority that's fine.</span><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If reliability and security are critical then you have to start balancing things out.</span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In general UNIX based solutions do not have the same tools available in Windows but with a skilled administrator they can be made reasonably reliable and secure<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"> but a higher level of skill is required in the UNIX environment.</span> Skilled administrator time from volunteers is not expensive<span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"> having said that we should be asking them to do more work than we could?</span></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">The 300 users and 600 accounts was actually on a Microsoft SQL server where each database user was given their own account and password. No record of who was given which account was kept and over the years people came and left. I agree the admins were at fault but over the years there had been a number of admins some had more expertise than others and to an outsider knowing which knew what they were doing and which were basically bluffing is not always easy. We had probably fifty database administrators besides my team all doing their own thing. On the Microsoft SQL databases where we used Windows operating system groups if someone left they were removed from the group and we could check with their admin if they were part of the section or not.<br></span></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Microsoft SQL Server Express is a free limited version of SQL server that may well do for many users. Having said that the main advantage of SQL is it is a standard so you should be able to connect practically anything to it.<br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">For development <span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Microsoft visual studio is normally recognised as the gold standard for development environments and remember Github is now owned by Microsoft.</span></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Cheerio John<br></span></span></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 17:03 Yves <<a href="mailto:ycai@mailbox.org" target="_blank">ycai@mailbox.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>But face it, philosophy is now also part of the discussion. And that's important.<br>Yves <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 24 juillet 2020 20:50:22 GMT+02:00, john whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">If the database was smaller and less infrastructure was reliant on it working I would agree with you that philosophically open source software makes a lot of sense.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">However your argument is philosophical rather than logical.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Note I'm merely requesting that the idea be examined. I am not saying I know what is best and all the things that need to be considered.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 14:35 Yves <<a href="mailto:ycai@mailbox.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ycai@mailbox.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>You're probably have some very good points when it comes to database management, but running an open map on open source software makes a lot of sense.<br><br>Yves <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 24 juillet 2020 20:11:46 GMT+02:00, john whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">All this talk about databases and servers and sysadmins makes me wonder if we should reconsider our choice of operating systems and databases.</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">At one time in the past I ran a Database support group that covered Sybase, Oracle, Microsoft SQL server, ingres and half a dozen other database systems.</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">The UNIX side, some twenty or so servers ran software that in theory monitored the databases. In practise it never really was upto date.
Microsoft also had a very nice monitoring tool that monitored and suggested solutions. I've dropped an example report below.
</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">We ran probably fifty SQL server database servers and I spent quite a lot of time maxing the memory on a server then consolidating servers. Towards the end we had far more data running on SQL server than we did on the UNIX side. The servers were cheaper for the same performance for a start.<br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Many of the UNIX based servers had default passwords set which made security a problem. Fortunately they were protected by an air gap from the Internet.</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">We had an IBM mainframe in the mix with an old database on it. The programmers gradually retired. I was lucky and identified another government department that was switching away from it and we managed to grab a handful of programmers etc from them. Then a couple of years later that DBA retired. You need to think of the future. Will I be able to get knowledgeable staff if I need to? We had to pay the company to run a special course in Ottawa and that was not cheap by the time we put the trainer up in a hotel and paid his airfare from the states.<br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Initially the Microsoft side suffered from lack of security but they hardened the operating system and SQL server to a point where it was the most secure combination. Microsoft SQL server was originally Sybase but got completely rewritten over time.</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">On the support side my staff found that once we had set the permissions to an operating system group we just had to add people to the group. For other databases each person had to be given permissions individually which made for finger problems. The classic was one secure database that was supposed to be accessed operationally by 300 people. The problem was there were 600 accounts and no one knew which ones were needed or which could be deleted to reduce the surface area for attack.</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">The integrated Microsoft monitoring system made reliability much better. There were far fewer problems on the Microsoft SQL side than on the UNIX / other database side and they were easier to fix. One of my less expert database admins was shocked by the ease of which he caught the problem and corrected it by himself after an alert. It gave him a bit of confidence as well.</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">We changed to <span>PostgreSQL in 2009. The size of the database was much smaller then. <br></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span>One thing we noticed was on the database tuning side. SQL server worked better if you just left it alone and didn't try to tune it. It would check what was in memory rather than go out to the disk drives and that made a big difference to performance. We measure disk access in milliseconds and memory access in nanoseconds. One is ten thousand times smaller than the other.</span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span>On the reliability side there is a set of guidelines that are basically common sense. I forget the formal (ISO?) name but many organisations have seen considerable savings in money and in reliability by using them. I met the English guy who originated them at a Microsoft presentation. They can be applied to any environment.<br></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span>I think we either run the largest
<span>PostgreSQL </span>database there is or it is close to it. From a reliability point of view my professional hat says this is not where you want to be. You want to be more mainstream with someone else being on the bleeding edge.</span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span>So the heresy would be look at the implications of changing to Microsoft SQL server in the cloud. There is lots of documentation and given that Microsoft has worked closely with us in the past the cost might not be too bad. I do understand that we have a large investment in our current set up both as an organisation and personally and many will consider this as heresy but now is probably the time to think about it.<br></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Cheerio John<br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><span></span>
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<table style="background-color:white;max-width:548px;color:black;border-spacing:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-bottom:0px;border-collapse:collapse" width="548" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family:"Segoe UI",Frutiger,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;padding-bottom:10px;text-align:left">Your message to <span style="color:rgb(0,114,198)"><a href="mailto:Rolland.desrocher@motioncares.ca" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Rolland.desrocher@motioncares.ca</a></span> couldn't be delivered.<br></td>
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<span style="color:rgb(0,114,198)">Rolland.desrocher</span> wasn't found at <span style="color:rgb(0,114,198)"><a href="http://motioncares.ca" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">motioncares.ca</a></span>.<br></td>
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<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">jwhelan0112</span>
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<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Office 365</span>
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<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Rolland.desrocher</span>
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<b>Action Required</b>
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<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Recipient</span>
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<span style="color:rgb(192,0,0)">Unknown To address</span>
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<td style="font-family:"Segoe UI",Frutiger,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:21px;font-weight:500;background-color:rgb(242,245,250);padding:0px 10px">How to Fix It</td>
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<td style="font-family:"Segoe UI",Frutiger,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:400;padding:0px 10px 6px;background-color:rgb(242,245,250)">The address may be misspelled or may not exist. Try one or more of the following:</td>
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<ul style="font-family:"Segoe UI",Frutiger,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:400;margin-left:40px;margin-bottom:5px;background-color:rgb(242,245,250);padding:0px 6px"><li>Send the message again following these steps: In Outlook, open this non-delivery report (NDR) and choose <b>Send Again</b> from the Report ribbon. In Outlook on the web, select this NDR, then select the link "<b>To send this message again, click here.</b>"
Then delete and retype the entire recipient address. If prompted with
an Auto-Complete List suggestion don't select it. After typing the
complete address, click <b>Send</b>.</li><li>Contact the recipient (by phone, for example) to check that the address exists and is correct.</li><li>The recipient may have set up email forwarding
to an incorrect address. Ask them to check that any forwarding they've
set up is working correctly.</li><li>Clear the recipient Auto-Complete List in Outlook or Outlook on the web by following the steps in this article: <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=532972" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Fix email delivery issues for error code 5.1.10 in Office 365</a>, and then send the message again. Retype the entire recipient address before selecting <b>Send</b>.</li></ul>
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<td style="font-family:"Segoe UI",Frutiger,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:400;padding:0px 10px 6px;background-color:rgb(242,245,250)">If the problem continues, forward this message to your email admin. If you're an email admin, refer to the <b>More Info for Email Admins</b> section below.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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</blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma brièveté.</div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma brièveté.</div></blockquote></div>