<div dir="ltr"><div>This seems like a bad idea. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Name tags are generally very easy to verify on the ground. It is not always as easy to tell if a shop with a certain name belongs to a specific wikidata entry, especially in jurisdictions that are less litigious when it comes to trademarks. <br></div><div><br></div><div>We also should not be doing bulk name changes until we have verified that the signage on the individual locations has actually changed. Depending on the brand these could take years to ripple through to the individual stores, and particularly 'historic' stores may retain old branding as part of a conscious effort not to irk locals. Branding changes in the Wikidata would likely be over-applied. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Abandoning the name tags for chains would essentially be carte-blanche permission for automated edits. As it stands now, a disagreement between OSM name and Wikidata name may be a useful indicator that resurvey is needed. If we abandon name tags we open the door to the introduction of dodgy data that isn't caught by any of our QA tools because it doesn't even have a changeset.</div><div><br></div><div>If "duplication" is really an issue, I would prefer to remove all Wikidata tags than to depreciate names where they exist. Forcing contributors to check an independant database before uploading survey results seems like a lot of extra effort for a volunteer driven project.<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 12:11, pangoSE <<a href="mailto:pangose@riseup.net">pangose@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>These are valid concerns. See my response to James.<br>If Wikimedia should become uncooperative we could easily set up our own wikibase installation. See <a href="https://www.wbstack.com/" target="_blank">https://www.wbstack.com/</a><br><br>It takes a few minutes plus some configuration time.<br><br></div></blockquote><div>It would also be a new and currently unnecessary drain on OSMF's resources. <br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>In fact this might be much better than forcing our data into wikidata which is very tied to education and does not accept all our objects that have names currently.<br><br>In case we take this route I would recommend having another prefix than Q for our unique ids.<br><br>Cheers<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Mateusz Konieczny via talk <<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>> skrev: (9 augusti 2020 12:16:33 CEST)<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>or has downtime? or deletes data/items used by OSM? or bans OSM mappers?<br></div><div>or refuses to ban vandal/troll/harasser? or fails to ban them quickly?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Aug 9, 2020, 11:45 by <a href="mailto:james2432@gmail.com" target="_blank">james2432@gmail.com</a>:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div dir="auto">is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to exist?<br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE, <<a href="mailto:pangose@riseup.net" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">pangose@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The rationale is explained here:<br></div><div><a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655" target="_blank">https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well. Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit the names or add name references (through the editors)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Substantial changes will have to be made:<br></div><div>* nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow. It could probably be done on the fly.<br></div><div>* <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">openstreetmap.org</a> will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying any object. <br></div><div>* rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from wikidata.<br></div><div>* all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata objects. <br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div>These seems like large burdens to dump on open source developers. <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>* maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We should unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how to do that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://osm.org" target="_blank">osm.org</a> and ask users to create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that? <br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div>I'm not sure if I have a Wikidata account so this is a non-issue for me. <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div><br></div><div>I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM closer than the islands they are today.<br></div><div><br></div><div>As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply better quality, better modeled, better referenced and better protected against vandalism.<br></div><div><br></div><div>WDYT?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers<br></div><div>pangoSE<br></div><div>Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but to the wider ecosystem._______________________________________________<br></div><div> talk mailing list<br></div><div> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div>
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