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<div>Yes, I am replying to an old message (I finally processed it).<br></div><div><br></div><div>It is about editing <br></div><div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Limitations_on_mapping_private_information">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Limitations_on_mapping_private_information</a><br></div><div>to bring it closer to community consensus.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Sep 16, 2020, 15:43 by bkil.hu+Aq@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>Could someone perhaps clarify why this page resides in the main<br></div><div>namespace and not in the responsible proposer's user space?<br></div><blockquote>Do not name individuals in OpenStreetMap tags, unless their name is on a business sign posted towards the street, or part of the business name and available in public records.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What if the name of the operator is printed on each receipt when you<br></div><div>shop there or a certificate is placed on the wall that shows it? We<br></div><div>usually add that to operator=*.<br></div></blockquote><div>I changed this sentence to<br></div><div>"Do not name individuals in OpenStreetMap tags, unless their name is on a<br></div><div>business sign posted towards the street, or part of the business name
<br></div><div>or otherwise publicly available. For example tagging operator=*<br></div><div>based on data printed on receipts is normal."<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>Indeed I think that the article confuses mapped things that are<br></div><div>worthless and mapped things that are dangerous (according to GDPR).<br></div></blockquote><div>I would not say confuses, it is just that for private data<br></div><div>"it is not ethical to map", "it is pointless to map this" and<br></div><div>"it is illegal to map this" often applies together.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>For example, the reason why we don't map private washing machines is<br></div><div>that its location and capacity is not information that is in public<br></div><div>interest (hence why it is not a POI). Another reason that it fails the<br></div><div>verifiability criterion: if I want to check that the position and type<br></div><div>information of the washing machine is still accurate, I need to ring<br></div><div>the doorbell and be invited in to see for myself, but it is not<br></div><div>realistic that an owner would invite dozens of potentially malicious<br></div><div>random people into their house just for this.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Even if the object would be visible from the outside, it is of no use<br></div><div>to 99.9999% of individuals if the owner does not let me do my laundry<br></div><div>there. If a TV is fully and clearly visible from the outside through<br></div><div>the window, it _may_ serve a public utility of entertainment if you<br></div><div>can lip read, but you need to ring the doorbell each time you want to<br></div><div>switch channels...<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>Private parking and driveways are acceptable because it hints at which<br></div><div>way the entrance is - helping delivery personal and guests alike. I've<br></div><div>mapped some very interesting hilly terrain where this can be<br></div><div>especially useful, as roads were pretty dense and the road towards<br></div><div>where the entrance is was not trivial and a failed guess could cost<br></div><div>you a few more minutes of walking or driving for each house.<br></div></blockquote><div>I think that there is an universal agreement that private driveways and<br></div><div>parkings are mappable.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>Private swimming pools aren't that interesting but people seem to<br></div><div>enjoy tracing them. Maybe in case of emergency they could be used as a<br></div><div>nearby water source by the fire brigade?<br></div></blockquote><div>Yes, swimming pools can be and are used by firefighters.<br></div><div>For example in USA during wildfires helicopters lifting water<br></div><div>from private swimming pools is something that happens.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>From the privacy section, am I reading correctly that you suggest that<br></div><div>you find it acceptable to map each tomb in a cemetery by name?<br></div></blockquote><div>Yes, I would expect it to be acceptable and I mapped some graves<br></div><div>together with inscription on them (typically ones of my family<br></div><div>so that it would be possible for me to locate this graves on my own).<br></div><div><br></div><div>For example <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7777591130">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7777591130</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Though if there is consensus that it is not OK then I would stop<br></div><div>doing this.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>I think a lot of considerations are missing in this article other than<br></div><div>those stemming from the GDPR, like military and national<br></div><div>considerations. You also do not mention that there exist regions where<br></div><div>mapping activities are forbidden by the law and punishable by prison<br></div><div>sentence.<br></div></blockquote><div>Note article title "Limitations on mapping private information".<br></div><div><br></div><div>I am aware that some of my OSM activity that I did was breaking laws<br></div><div>in China, Russia, India and probably also North Korea and Pakistan.<br></div><div><br></div><div>(not sure whatever this countries consider it as breaking their law if <br></div><div>I did it in an other country)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Describing how OSM is not respecting this laws and how OSM mappers<br></div><div>may be impacted may be useful (maybe was done already) but it is <br></div><div>not related to private information.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>And anyway other than describing "what is worthless to map",<br></div><div>I think you are trying to basically gather "mapping ethics"<br></div></blockquote><div>Partially yes.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div> and maybe<br></div><div>this should be better be done in Wikipedia because it does not only<br></div><div>concern OpenStreetMap, but any mapping provider.<br></div></blockquote><div>This would be out of scope of WIkipedia and I am interested in consensus of<br></div><div>OSM mappers, not more wide consensus/opinion.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 3:15 PM Niels Elgaard Larsen <elgaard@agol.dk> wrote:<br></div><blockquote><div><br></div><div>Mateusz Konieczny via talk:<br></div><div>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Limitations_on_mapping_private_information<br></div><div>><br></div><div>> Do you think that this page is a good description of community consensus?<br></div><div>><br></div><div>> The page has<br></div><div>> "This page is under development (May 2020). It may not yet reflect community consensus."<br></div><div>> and I would like to check whatever it matches community consensus well or mismatches it.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think we should avoid language such as "There is no need to split residential<br></div><div>landuse into individual plots".<br></div><div><br></div><div>Of course there is a need for someone somewhere to tag just about everything.<br></div><div>For example, if you want to buy a house you would want to see where the plot is.<br></div><div><br></div><div>This is not about needs, but about privacy, and maybe data quality.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>--<br></div><div>Niels Elgaard Larsen<br></div><div><br></div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div>Tagging mailing list<br></div><div>Tagging@openstreetmap.org<br></div><div>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div>Tagging mailing list<br></div><div>Tagging@openstreetmap.org<br></div><div>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div> </body>
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