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<p>Dear John, thank you for helping thinking about the issue.</p>
<p>you mention, at least I recognize, three points:</p>
<p>- planning the mapathon —and let me add— publish this in the
wiki, in compliance to the Organized Editing Guidelines (OEG);</p>
<p>- matching the place to be mapped with the mappers available
(that is either focus on the place to be mapped and establish who
should help, or on the people to introduce to OSM and consequently
select a suitable place.);</p>
<p>- validation and closing the project.</p>
<p>let me first recall the situation and the events, because I think
that OSM should require HOT to review their practices, and that
together we provide some guidance to such beginners chapters,
possibly based on the above three points.<br>
</p>
<p>- when in 2018 HOT assigned the 4917 project to OSM user PANAMA
Manuel Quintero, he had very limited experience and proved
affinity with the OSM database and community;</p>
<p>- when in 2019 YouthMappers supported the activity in Guna Nega,
they should have required the opening of a HOT project for the
task;</p>
<p>- in 2020 the same should have happened —and they're still on
time to do that— for the scattered emergency mapping in: Río
Sereno-Río Guizado; Volcán-Cerro Punta-Barrio Guadalupe;
Boquete-Palmira Abajo; Río Chiquito/Río Quiqui; Soloy; La
Esperanza-San Valentín (falls in the 4917 area);</p>
<p>- This chapter makes no attempt at contacting either the local or
the broader OSM communities, and turns a deaf ear to all input and
offers for assistance, and gets very effective passive support by
both YMI and HOT in their non compliance of the OEG.</p>
<p>back to the three points from your writing:<br>
</p>
<p>do you think my "recommendations" for the chapter's 2019 activity
are of any value?<br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Panam%C3%A1/Reuni%C3%B3n_2019-03-21">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Panam%C3%A1/Reuni%C3%B3n_2019-03-21</a></p>
<p>regards,</p>
<p>Mario Frasca<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/12/2020 16:50, john whelan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJ-Ex1G4M9jya+iVYGY4GF261odcWAnaNaEX1bmgmn1f1KcUvw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">I would suggest that if someone could identify a
list of mapping tasks suitable for beginners that might help
this sort of thing happening again.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I'd done a fair amount of validation of HOT
tasks in the past which I'm sure are similar and I'm more than
aware of the amount of effort needed to validate after new
untrained enthusiastic mappers have been mapping. Especially
when they map only a couple of times.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I'm also aware that it does take a lot of
knowledge and resources to clean up afterwards.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Do we need a half page introduction to OSM?
Something along the lines of if you are organising some sort
of mapathon these are things you need to consider and theses
are the sort of things that have caused problems in the past.
I get the feeling the enthusiastic organisers are going to do
it anyway but it help help a bit.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It doesn't help the present situation but it
might help prevent more problems in the future.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 16:29
Mario Frasca <<a href="mailto:mario@anche.no"
moz-do-not-send="true">mario@anche.no</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi Rory,</p>
<p>let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole
community, not just to me.</p>
<p>BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter
of the University of Panama consider they're mapping
within OSM, that there's a local community of mappers
already mapping, and with some experience in different
fields.</p>
<p>unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to
comments to their changesets, or to consider complaints
about their low quality of edits, and the sheer mass of
beginners they throw into not-too-simple tasks. recently
they had their yearly "Gis Day", please don't ask me what
it is, because I don't know, only that there's a hashtag
being used once a year by the YouthMappers UP Chapter.
also please don't ask me who's inside this chapter,
because I don't know.</p>
<p>when Mateusz wrote to <a
href="mailto:info@youthmappers.org" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">info@youthmappers.org</a>
about their organized editing activity without declaration
of intents, the result of his writing was that HOT opened
two projects on top of two areas we from the community
were editing using the tasking manager from <a
href="http://tareas.openstreetmap.co" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">tareas.openstreetmap.co</a>,
forcing us to clean up the edits while they were coming
in. that's Santiago and Colón.<br>
</p>
<p>in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the
effort to close their project so they would stay away from
the work which was anyway almost complete.<br>
</p>
<p>in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the
YMUP Chapter.</p>
<p>there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory
says that they are reviewing the tasks they had opened,
but apart from beginner mapper <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/agreenish"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">agreenish</a>,
arguably adding to the mass of mistakes, I don't see much
editing activity in either project.</p>
I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to
make it a structured presentation of what goes on here.
there's statistical data I've collected that shows just how
organized the edits from YMUP, and I find it quite
insulting, the mismatch between the words by YouthMappers
International, the call for patience by HOT, and the
continued self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we need
to do the cleaning up.<br>
<p>you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing.
hopefully no YouthMappers there.<br>
</p>
<p>ciao,</p>
<p>Mario<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Mario,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I will
try and contact the chapter and get an answer for
you. The last I heard was that they had begun to
validate the tasks they had created.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Rory</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 29, 2020
at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca <<a
href="mailto:mario@anche.no" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">mario@anche.no</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear Rory,<br>
<br>
let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long
we should wait, <br>
for the YMUP to review their edits?<br>
<br>
as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz
assumes something <br>
like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the
complaint 4 days <br>
after the edit — which he fixed himself.<br>
<br>
maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next
day", which could <br>
be "the next available day".<br>
<br>
in particular since this looks like episodic edits,
not ongoing activities.<br>
<br>
so, what is the time we should allow before concluding
they abandoned <br>
the location?<br>
<br>
a week? (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)<br>
<br>
a month? (very slow, one forgets what they were
doing)<br>
<br>
a year? (ah? next group, please?)<br>
<br>
best regards, Mario Frasca<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span>
<div
style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:small"><b><i><font
size="1">Rory
Nealon (he/him)</font></i></b></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:small"><b><i><font
size="1">Senior
GIS Analyst &
YouthMappers
Activity Manager</font></i></b></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:small"><b><i><font
size="1">US Agency
for International
Development</font></i></b></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:small"><b><i><font
size="1">Washington,
DC</font></i></b></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:small"><b><i><font
size="1">+1
202.468.7890</font></i></b></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:small"><b><i><font
size="1"><a
href="https://pages.usaid.gov/theLab/CGS/geocenter"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">GeoCenter
MyUSAID Site</a></font></i></b></div>
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<div
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style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
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Geographic
Approach to
Development</a></b></i></font></div>
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