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</head><body text="#000000"><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">The issue of diversity is complex. In
Africa many of the locals whilst feeling that it would be nice to have
all local mappers they recognise that the map would not be as complete
without the armchair mappers</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">.</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">Unfortunately
when you work in technical areas often you'll see a group build up
expertise over time. These people have the frame work if you like to to
see how things fit together and it is how things like overpass </span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">have come about.</span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">Fredrick
is one of those people who has a great deal of knowledge and
OpenStreetMap wo</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">u</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">ld be much poorer without him.</span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">It does
take time to build up expertise and to take part in the discussions in a
meaningful way. However using terms such as "</span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><b
style="font-weight:normal;"
id="docs-internal-guid-409d3241-7fff-72ce-30f2-8336242f59af"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">This power dynamic leads to a communication style which includes misogynistic, hostile, targeting, doxing, unfriendly, competitive, intimidating, patronising messaging, which is offensive to us and forces many of us to remain as observers and without the confidence to participate actively" I think is purely destructive. Recognise that some of the wording you will come across is pure jargon. It works because the group the communication is taking place is to some extent closed and jargon gets the message across effectively and quickly. Communication that is more general does need the "can a six year old understand this approach".
</span></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">I also
have an issue with expecting everyone to conform to a set of social
norms, I can think of at least one mapper who is obsessive over tiny
details and goes to great lengths to get them right on the map. However
his social interactions may seem a bit abrupt to some. His mapping
contributions though are extremely </span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">valuable</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">.</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">I also
have an issue with those who say we don't have enough female mappers.
Many females do not map using their own name but will use a male
sounding name to avoid problems. Hence you cannot say with any accuracy
just how many mappers are male o</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">r</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> female.</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">If you
feel that OpenStreetMap is not open enough then there are forks that you
can join in</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> or you can build your own.</span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">OpenStreetMap
does respect local mappers points of view, which I think addresses your
comments about minorities. </span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">Which is why the map uses different </span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">conventions</span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> in different places.<br>
<br>
</span>However that brings us back to the problem of how decisions are
made. Certainly in Africa the NGOs have played a part in pushing for
consistent tags and tagging standards and I am happy to accept that
those who coordinated the efforts where often white, etc etc but they
did consult with everyone who would talk to them. Things like purdah
can be an issue. Communicating through a six year old because his
mother was in purdah means mother's views may not be communicated
easily.</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<br>
Cheerio John<br>
</span><br>
<br>
<span>Celine Jacquin wrote on 2020-12-09 14:06:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALpiouGt2L24hc73tV3cmTUfQ9aL=NrMgXvg5cC61V8Nrh-sQQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Hello everybody<br>I hope you are all well<br><br>We,
several groups, chapters, organizations and individuals, have reacted
to the conversation in the osm-talk-list (<a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html</a>)
considering that it is an incident symptomatic of the problem we have
faced for many years in the community, which is one of the greatest
obstacles to diversity at all levels of OSM. Time to make a real change.</div>That
is why we have developed a beginning of statement on the desirable
mechanisms to work solidly on the rules of coexistence and improve
diversity.<div><br>We bring it to your attention and invite anyone who
feels represented to sign it. Translations are in preparation (any help
is welcome): </div><div><a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing</a><br></div><div><br><br>On
behalf of the signatories<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Best regards<br><br>Céline
Jacquin<br></div></div></div></div>
<br>
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