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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/14/20 8:13 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ipswichmapper@tutanota.com">ipswichmapper@tutanota.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MOXf-x6--B-2@tutanota.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>> A bigger problem is that the UI for list owners is
horrid.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ok. What alternative solutions do you propose?</div>
</blockquote>
<p>From Tom's answer, you might gather that there are higher
priorities that absorb administrative resources - so unless you
can offer a hand, I'm afraid that things will remain as they are
for now.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MOXf-x6--B-2@tutanota.com">
<div>-- <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>14 Dec 2020, 19:07 by <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tom@compton.nu">tom@compton.nu</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid
#93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;">
<div>That's just the instructions on how to migrate the data<br>
</div>
<div>and it doesn't cover anything related to actually
installing<br>
</div>
<div>and configuring all the components of mailman 3 from a<br>
</div>
<div>quick look which is a big issue given that it's not
packaged<br>
</div>
<div>and it's a not a single tool like mailman 2 but rather is<br>
</div>
<div>a collection of separate components.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Given that we're already looking at other things there is<br>
</div>
<div>no point in spending several months and many man hours on<br>
</div>
<div>attempting a migration to something that we have to install<br>
</div>
<div>from source and then try and keep up to date without any<br>
</div>
<div>upstream packages.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You're right that the UI tries to be a web forum but from<br>
</div>
<div>personal experience I can say that it fails - it's probably<br>
</div>
<div>a better UI as a simple archiver but it's no use as a way<br>
</div>
<div>of reading lists day to day. The only thing that's ever<br>
</div>
<div>got close to that is Discourse.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A bigger problem is that the UI for list owners is horrid.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tom<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 14/12/2020 18:58, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ipswichmapper@tutanota.com">ipswichmapper@tutanota.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>Python's mailing lists use mailman 3:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.python.org/community/lists/">https://www.python.org/community/lists/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.python.org/community/lists/"><https://www.python.org/community/lists/></a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What is the problem with the UI ? It seems far, far more
useable than pipermail and hyperkitty feels like a forum.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If upgrading isn't possible, well then I guess bad luck.
The mailman focs doesn't make it look that hard (is it
skipping over OSM server specific steps that make the
process harder?)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html">https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html"><https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html></a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,<br>
</div>
<div>IpswichMapper<br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>14 Dec 2020, 18:45 by <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tom@compton.nu">tom@compton.nu</a>:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> It's not going to happen.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Virtually nobody uses mailman 3 with the exception of
Fedora<br>
</div>
<div> and I know from using it there that the UI is a
disaster.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Also it's not packaged for Ubuntu and it's far more
complicated to<br>
</div>
<div> deploy than what we have.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Don't think of mailman 3 as an upgrade - it's basically
a<br>
</div>
<div> totally different product.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> There is talk of a change, but it won't be to mailman 3.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Tom<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> On 14/12/2020 18:42, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ipswichmapper@tutanota.com">ipswichmapper@tutanota.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Okay thanks, I'll contact him on github. I don't havd
mailman<br>
</div>
<div> administration experience, or that much coding
experience for<br>
</div>
<div> that matter. I was just suprised that we are stuck with
10+<br>
</div>
<div> years old cluttered pipermail when hyperkitty is
actually useable.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> -- <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> 14 Dec 2020, 18:37 by <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jm@liotier.org">jm@liotier.org</a>:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> From looking at the Mailman Chef cookbook at<br>
</div>
<div>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman">https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman</a><br>
</div>
<div>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman"><https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman></a>,<br>
</div>
<div> Tom Hughes is the person you should ask. If you have
mailman<br>
</div>
<div> administration experience, maybe you could make it
happen.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> On 12/14/20 7:18 PM, ipswichmapper--- via talk wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I was wondering if all the lists on<br>
</div>
<div> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org">https://lists.openstreetmap.org</a><br>
</div>
<div> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org"><https://lists.openstreetmap.org></a><br>
</div>
<div> could be switched to Mailman 3 and hyperkitty (the
newest<br>
</div>
<div> archiver).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Currently, pipermail is used to archive, and its UI is<br>
</div>
<div> *unusable*.<br>
</div>
<div> Comparatevely, hyperkitty is a lot more like a forum.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> From my experience, the mailing lists are *far more
active*<br>
</div>
<div> than<br>
</div>
<div> the forum, so it would be good to have it searchable
& more<br>
</div>
<div> accessible (the only downside to this is newer users
might<br>
</div>
<div> use the<br>
</div>
<div> mailing list now. I don't think this is a downside, but
I<br>
</div>
<div> understand why others would think so).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Also, Mailman 3 still gets updates, while *mailman2 is
on<br>
</div>
<div> maintainance mode and won't recieve feature updates.*<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I strongly recommend that the mailing lists are upgraded
to<br>
</div>
<div> mailman3 with hyperkitty: this will make the mailing
lists<br>
</div>
<div> so, so<br>
</div>
<div> much more useable.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> -- Tom Hughes (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tom@compton.nu">tom@compton.nu</a>)<br>
</div>
<div> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://compton.nu/">http://compton.nu/</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
</div>
<div>Tom Hughes (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tom@compton.nu">tom@compton.nu</a>)<br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://compton.nu/">http://compton.nu/</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
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