<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div>Mar 15, 2021, 14:43 by bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><p>This doesn't however address the inappropriate language used by
some, which seems to gain support from newcomers. And to Mateusz,
I would like to say, posting a message here to direct OSM
contributors to determine themselves if what is happening there is
non acceptable, is promoting this channel, but feel free if you
feel like you want to connect your name to it and promote it..., <br></p></blockquote><div>I invited everyone to see what is actually there as I considered actual state of discussion <br></div><div>there as the best defense against accusations of racism and abusive comments.<br></div><div><br></div><div>And I continue to invite everyone.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I promise that content there is free from racism, spam, abusive<br></div><div><div>comments, nazi promotion, attacks on religious, ethnic or cultural groups<br></div><div>(except brief time between posting and quick deletion, bitcoin spam<br></div><div>sometimes survives for several minutes).<br></div><div><br></div><div>I am not promising that it is 100% free from hyperbole, bad ideas and<br></div><div>failed attempts to make a joke<br></div><div><div><br></div><div>To repeat, link is <a href="https://discord.gg/4smYkq3gzp" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://discord.gg/4smYkq3gzp</a><br></div></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div> Some of the messages I've seen there have been removed, but after
"the harm was already done". Justifications and actions by users
and the moderators , came after my message on this forum as it is
bridged to DIscord, <br></div></blockquote><div>To be clear, what was removed was describing multiple no votes on shrubbery<br></div><div>proposal as <span>"<span class="">German</span> <span class="">assault</span></span>". It was done by author of message.<br></div><div><br></div><div>No rule violating content was found, except that one of 1927 subscribers with nickname<br></div><div>referring to USSR was asked to change it (as violation was borderline, <br></div><div>account will be kicked after 24h if nickname will not be changed).<br></div><div><br></div><div>It was entire result of spending hours in attempt to find supposed racist and disgusting content.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div> I leave out the most extreme examples as it helps no one to be
repeated, they contain "historic" references and terms, aiming at
certain countries and communities and religions, which are not
acceptable, actively acted against by the UN and the global
community.<br></div></blockquote><div>Noone was able to find any such messages. Sole that would sort of qualify was<br></div><div>quoted already.<br></div><div><br></div><div>> User1: Conspiracy theory: OpenStreetMap is a German plot for world<br></div><div>> domination<br></div><div>> User2: This turned wrong quickly<br></div><div>> User1: I never said it was a Nazi plot<br></div><div>> User2: I know it was just a joke :slight_smile:<br></div><div>> User3: Our secret plot is to fill the world with burocracy till<br></div><div>> everything is accounted for<br></div><div><br></div><div>No content that would qualify for being racist, disgusting, abusive behavior,<br></div><div>nationalistic lobbying, "nearing hate speech" or "Racist, insulting and abusive comments".<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>But for those interested some of the less graving messages are
literally quoted here:<br></div><div> "Shrubs is dumb, but otherwise I agree it's minor"<br></div><div> "<span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">That's why we need mob rule to fix tagging."<br> "</span><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">All micromapping seems overly
complicated to me, but there's some Hungarian college kid that
will do it."</span></div></blockquote><div>Despite spending massive amount of time on that,<br></div><div>this messages remain the most problematic ones<br></div><div>that were found.<br></div><div><br></div><div>For additional context:<br></div><div><br></div><div>(1)<br></div><div>User1: Four people participate in the discussion and they all seem to<br></div><div> favour shrubs<br></div><div>User2: Go for what works and let's get on with it them.<br></div><div>User1: Not that I would map individual bushes but it is the same as if<br></div><div> you would use natural=tree on an area? Alright. The difference<br></div><div> between shurbs and shrubbery is very minor anyway.<br></div><div>User2: Shrubs is dumb, but otherwise I agree it's minor :slight_smile:<br></div><div><br></div><div>"shrubs" was clearly referring to word in a tag, not to religion, race,<br></div><div>ethnic group, cultural group, group of people, place, organization<br></div><div>or specific person.<br></div><div><br></div><div>It was also clearly referring to word in a tag, not to people who favor<br></div><div>such tagging.<br></div><div><br></div><div>(2)<br></div><div><span style="" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">"That's why we need mob rule to fix tagging" </span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div>User1: Wow the wiki definition for tracktype=grade4 begins with "Almost<br></div><div> always an unpaved track..." implying that there could be paved<br></div><div> tracks with grade4. Wut?<br></div><div><br></div><div>User2: Maybe the authors envisioned country-specific track<br></div><div> grades<br></div><div>User2: Maybe post a note on the talk page there<br></div><div><br></div><div>User1: I think the authors felt they couldn't use clear, decisive language due<br></div><div> to the OSM cultural tendency to allow local mappers to make the<br></div><div> final call about what a tag should mean in their area Sure is<br></div><div> interesting trying to structure data when you can never be quite<br></div><div> sure what a tag really means without surveying mappers worldwide!<br></div><div><br></div><div>User2: That's why we need mob rule to fix tagging.<br></div><div><br></div><div> (marked as response to "implying that there could be paved<br></div><div> tracks with grade4. Wut?")<br></div><div>Me: In theory: heavily degraded and overgrown asphalt/concrete may<br></div><div> qualify<br></div><div><br></div><div>It was not really needed hyperbole, but anyone present in OSM for<br></div><div>long felt need to burn down at least one tagging scheme.<br></div><div>And I see nothing here that would be abusive, racist, derogatory,<br></div><div>hate speech, attack on specific ethic or religious groups or<br></div><div>matching other allegations.<br></div><div><br></div><div>(3)<br></div><div><span style="" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">"All micromapping seems overly
complicated to me, but there's some Hungarian college kid that
will do it."</span></span><br></div><div><span style="" class=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana"></span></span><br></div><div class="">User1: This kind of thing makes sense to me:<br></div><div class="">User1: [image of intricate footway tagging]<br></div><div>User2: the splitting and classifying each piece seems overly complicated to me,<br></div><div> but I see the need for a virtual way of some sort and not just for crossing<br></div><div> roads, but areas too<br></div><div>User1: All micromapping seems overly complicated to me, but there's some<br></div><div> Hungarian college kid that will do it.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Maybe it is just me but it seemed to be not derogatory, rather the opposite<br></div><div><br></div><div>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>None of them were considered rule-breaking.<br></div><div><div>I see no reason to see racism in describing natural=shrubs tag as dumb.<br></div><div>Especially as race was not implied, discussed, considered, suggested<br></div><div>or appearing in any way.<br></div><div><div><br></div></div><div>(obviously word "dumb" or "shrub" can be used in racist comment,<br></div><div>but it was not happening here)<br></div><div><div><br></div><div>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div>as racist, disgusting, abusive behavior, nationalistic lobbying,<br></div><div>"nearing hate speech", "Racist, insulting and abusive comments"<br></div><div>and requires some action and that such content should result in action<br></div><div>from DWG, OSMF and delinking of such discussion place.<br></div><div><br></div><div>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div><div><br></div></div><div>Please, if you encounter any racist, disgusting, inappropriate,<br></div><div>harmful, or abusive (there or elsewhere) - please report it to<br></div><div>moderators using whatever tool is available on a given platform. In<br></div><div>general it is a good idea to quote, link or otherwise specifically<br></div><div>identify rule-breaking content.<br></div><div><br></div><div>On this Discord server send a message to @ModMail account.<br></div><div><br></div><div>To repeat, link to OpenStreetMap World Discord server is<br></div><div><a href="https://discord.gg/4smYkq3gzp" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://discord.gg/4smYkq3gzp</a><br></div><div>I invite everyone to check which description is better describing reality.<br></div><div><br></div><div>This message was not consulted with the moderation team on<br></div><div>OpenStreetMap World Discord server (sorry, I am out of time).<br></div> </body>
</html>