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<p><font face="Verdana">Interesting conversation and again we divert
to scientific explanations and semantics, which in my opinion
doesn't make our wiki usable and understandable for the common
mapper.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">I worked for many years in engineering and
construction, also pipelines, both for liquids and gasses as you
might call them.<br>
In nearly all of the cases however we never used the term
liquid, gas, plasma or fluid. As in most of the cases that's not
what is flowing there. Air is a mixture of vapour, gas and
solids (dust particles). The liquids, especially waste water as
mentioned here in the example is a mixture of liquids and
solids, which when they exit a pipe creates vapour and gasses,
when it is in the pipe has a layer of vapour and gas on top.
That's why you can smell them.<br>
Some pipes are used to dump pure solids, like sand, rocks etc...
or slurries, a mixture which contains mostly solids.<br>
I would prefer a general understandable description:" a
substance or a mixture of substances that flow."</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">I even doubt if we need to describe the
substance, if we look at what is initially intended to be tagged
here.<br>
I believe the question was made if we could use this also for
air. Well, drain_socks used for air are not drain_socks, they
are vents.<br>
A drain sock is to dump any substance that falls down, does not
dissolve into the air. A vent is the opposite, it is to dump or
dissolve a substance into the air. But again, in most practical
applications, you can't differentiate them if you are not an
engineer. Vents might contain drains to drain condensate, drains
or drain socks contain vents. Those who are not mixed function
as both, nearly always as drain or vent.<br>
So in the engineering and construction world we just call them
"outlet" or "end". To avoid confusion add pipe or duct to it,
because an outlt is also used in conjunction with some shops. I
would suggest pipe, since many non technical people don't know
the difference between pipe and duct.<br>
You also want a tag for inlets, use "end", the end of the pipe
or duct can be an inlet. A sock in engineering refers to a very
specific type, you can refer to that with and attribution key.<br>
Culverts are tunnels or pipes. Same here as with pipes and
ducts, the common technical term is pipe.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">So as main tag I would prefer pipe_end=*. To
be used on pipelines, culverts and vents.<br>
<br>
They are very important features as we use them in environmental
and engineering studies to model and map hazardous zones, which
we can perfectly map in OSM and in some cases even marked.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Greetings,</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Bert Araali<br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/03/2021 10:10, Warin wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2b620d6a-c18d-5920-e368-5dd5f563e72f@gmail.com">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/3/21 8:33 pm, stevea wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:94711A2B-0DE5-44D5-B2C9-DCF0015C65AB@softworkers.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Speaking personally and as mapper and user of OSM, I have a preference for precise over common. </pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>What do you mean by the word 'precise'?</pre>
<pre>In metrology the work 'precise' is an indication of the repeatability (not the accuracy). </pre>
<pre>The word 'fluid' is not to me 'precise' as some people think it only encompass liquids while others think it encompass both liquids and gasses, thus it has two meanings so it not repeatable over the population and therefore not precise.
</pre>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:94711A2B-0DE5-44D5-B2C9-DCF0015C65AB@softworkers.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Without being insulting, I don't think OSM wants to map for users who are ignorant of precision, simply because we wish them to (already) understand the word they are using: this promulgates a lack of precision in our map, which can't be a good thing. I might be unusual, but I enjoy learning something new (when mapping, when doing many activities), especially when and where the (newer) word is more precise rather than simply my commonplace understanding of it.
I do appreciate that this might make difficult the interpretation of such a word into other languages, but a word as a stand-in for a concept should be translatable. When it isn't, we have cognates, and those are perfectly suitable. (I have noticed Francophones especially tend to dislike directly Anglophone cognates, instead coining their own word, one that is "more French").
"Fluid" is ideal, in my opinion. As a native English speaker, it is both broad enough to encompass gasses as well as precise enough to include liquids (and gasses). Liquid, while it is more common in English (not by much), is not as flexible a word and is imprecise (distinctly wrong) for gasses. And as pipes carry both, we should prefer fluid over liquid.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Mar 19, 2021, at 12:16 AM, Warin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><61sundowner@gmail.com></a> wrote:
The common use of the word 'fluid' only includes liquids.
Not everyone is a scientist. Even worse is the job of interpreting this into other languages.
So, yes .. avoid the use of the word 'fluids'.
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