<div dir="auto">No matter how you structure it it does carry additional overhead compared to a natively compiled program.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Save the planet and run a few less CPU cycles.<br><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:22 Marc Gemis <<a href="mailto:marc.gemis@gmail.com">marc.gemis@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Java is not a purely interpreted language, it uses a Just-in-time compilation. [1]<div><br><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation</a></div></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 4:12 PM John Whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Oracle's involvement in OpenJDK was noted by
myself as well.<br>
<br>
JAVA is an interpreted language. The advantage is the code will run on
any architecture. Practically any native complied language is faster
than an interpreted language.<br>
<br>
In non technical terms it works by submitting each instruction to an
interpreter which then produces machine code. A complied language
converts the source code to machine code as a separate step before the
program is run so you don't need to wait for the interpretation. You can
also spend more time optimising the machine code. These days there are
compilers that will compile JAVA but then it is no longer an
interpreted language.<br>
<br>
Cheerio John<br>
<br>
<span>Marc Gemis wrote on 4/12/2021 10:00 AM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Sorry to spoil the party, but while OpenJDK is an
open-source project, the main contributor is still Oracle. <br><br>As
for the performance, there is the GraalVM project [1]. That makes a
native executable from Java. It has the possibility to remove all
libraries that one does not need. It makes executables that startup very
fast. <br>However, in some cases, the generated native binary is slower
than a traditional Java program, because the JIT does "magic" at
runtime to improve the executed code.<div><br></div><div>Furthermore,
for the performance of Java vs. C++, see e.g. [2]. I do not believe that
any C++ program is automatically faster than Java.<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://www.graalvm.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.graalvm.org/</a></div></div><div>[2] <a href="https://stackoverflow.com/a/153900" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://stackoverflow.com/a/153900</a></div></div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr
4, 2021 at 9:05 PM Clifford Snow <<a href="mailto:clifford@snowandsnow.us" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">clifford@snowandsnow.us</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>John,</div><div>Excuse me if I missed the point of your
post. I use OpenJDK to run JOSM. OpenJDK is completely open source. JOSM
runs just fine in OpenJDK. A while back I did have an application that
would only work on Oracle's Java forcing me to install software to point
each application to the desired java version. Since that last
application upgraded I'm now completely free of Oracle's java. I'm a
Linux user but OpenJDK should work under Windows or Mac. Oracle's java
might have some performance advantages but it's nothing that hinders my
mapping. </div><div><br></div><div>I would encourage you and your
mapathon users to switch to OpenJDK.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Clifford</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 4,
2021 at 11:17 AM John Whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>The
opinion expressed on Oracle is my
personal one based on dealing with them over ten years in a corporate
environment. <br>
<br>
In my experience with mapathons where there is a requirement to map
buildings and the JOSM buildings_tool plugin would be invaluable the
policy of a number of companies and government agencies of not to
allowing JAVA to be installed means those mappers who have brought work
lap tops to the maparthon are unable to run JOSM which means the quality
of buildings suffers. <br>
<br>
I don't think there are any lies in the above statements.<br>
<br>
Realistically most programmers would agree that the Microsoft Visual
development environment is one of the most productive no matter what
language you are developing in.<br>
<br>
Microsoft of thirty or forty years ago had security problems. I don't
dispute that and recommended against the use of a number of their
products based on security concerns. You may not remember the Word Macro
problem when a document could run an macro on opening. Very easy to
load in malware. We went a different route at the time and avoided the
problems. <br>
<br>
Today Microsoft takes security very seriously, little things like
windows update is sent out in a torrent like environment which means no
matter what government would like installed on a particular machine it
can't be done as there is no way to target a particular machine. <br>
<br>
My ideal OSM editor would native code rather than running in a emulator.
You don't need the same amount of hardware for a given level of
performance. You never know you might even get a decent level of
performance on a Raspberry Pi.<br>
<br>
Written using Visual Studio, it's very good on the programmer
productivity side.<br>
<br>
The way in would be someone would write a basic editor and then over
time add functionality. I'm sure 10% of JOSM is used much more often
than the rest of it but that is just day dreaming. I'm quite certain
that JOSM has evolved over time by many different authors. Something
rewritten in C# might be clearer to understand.<br>
<br>
"Ask Oracle Java Webstart users to switch to OpenWebStart" came up in
JOSM and I was wondering if that meant we could get rid of Oracle JAVA.
There are products such as Kotlin which can replace JAVA completely.<br>
<br>
Anyway time to draw the discussion to a close. I asked the question and
found out that JAVA webstart is something different to JAVA and we will
agree to disagree on whether I lie or not.<br>
<br>
Cheerio John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span>Tomas Straupis wrote on 4/4/2021 11:48 AM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">2021-04-04, sk 18:04, John
Whelan rašė:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Purely
I don't trust Oracle,
JAVA is not
permitted on many corporate or US government systems for security
reasons.<br></div></blockquote></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"> Why are you trying to spread this lie again an again?
Microsoft is far worse on security and has been taken to court for bad
practices numerous times.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">
And it would be fun to see ArcGIS being banned for security reasons
(its server runs on java) 😃</div><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div></blockquote></div></div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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