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<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Jan 3, 2022, 03:30 by zelonewolf@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div>No, I do not think that we should map fictional/joke locations in OSM.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Null island was deleted by DWG action a few months ago in:<br></div><div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9028040143/history">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9028040143/history</a><br></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">"Null Island" is a tricky case.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It is actually used to refer to this location, but often rather in context of a<br></div><div dir="auto">broken data, not an actual geography.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">""Null Island" is the name used to refer to the point on the Earth's surface where<br></div><div dir="auto">the Prime Meridian (below Greenwich) and the equator intersect, at zero degrees<br></div><div dir="auto">latitude and zero degrees longitude (0°N 0°E). "<br></div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_Island">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_Island</a><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Claiming that there is island there would be fictional/joke data.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But many names were created as a jokes! That does not make<br></div><div dir="auto">them nonexisting places.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">See for example<br></div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hujowa_G%C3%B3rka">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hujowa_G%C3%B3rka</a><br></div><div dir="auto">which is in addition really vulgar (was created<br></div><div dir="auto">as a bitter joke among prisoners).<br></div><div dir="auto">( <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1500744010">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1500744010</a> )</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Many names also refer to something which does not exist,<br></div><div dir="auto">sometimes thing that never ever existed!<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For example there are some tourism=attraction marked<br></div><div dir="auto">at place where someone claimed to be abducted by<br></div><div dir="auto">aliens. It is an actual tourism attraction despite<br></div><div dir="auto">that it was clearly fake.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">See also <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_hill">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_hill</a><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In one case known to me ( <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2980213010">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2980213010</a> )<br></div><div dir="auto">someone mapped a "memorial" placed there by someone<br></div><div dir="auto">confused into believing that it is not just an illusion.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But even without that physical object it would be mappable.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Many suburbs/localities also does not exist as some physical entity - <br></div><div dir="auto">but solely as shared knowledge that name refers to some specific area or location.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I think that place=locality is fine as there is a shared<br></div><div dir="auto">knowledge that name refers to this specific location.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This object represents this - not an island.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I think that "imaginary data" is not a valid reason for deletion in this case.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I consider it equivalent to deleting name from<br></div><div dir="auto">Dragon Cave in Kraków with description "dragons are fictional".<br></div><div dir="auto">( <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/278057695">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/278057695</a> ).<br></div><div dir="auto">Yes, dragons are fictional. Cave is actually named after nonexisting entity.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">place=island would be fake data<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Though I understand also position "noone actually uses it<br></div><div dir="auto">as a place name for navigation or similar purposes - it is just a joke<br></div><div dir="auto">about malformed data".<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Though if I would be sailing in this region (very unlikely) then I would <br></div><div dir="auto">try to convince others to visit this location and would treat it as a tourism<br></div><div dir="auto">attraction. In similar way as 20°E meridian is a minor tourism attraction in<br></div><div dir="auto">my city<br></div><div dir="auto">( <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7825876394">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7825876394</a> <br></div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20E%20longitude%20marked%20in%20Krak%C3%B3w,%20southern%20text.jpg?uselang=en">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20E%20longitude%20marked%20in%20Krak%C3%B3w,%20southern%20text.jpg</a><br></div><div dir="auto">line on board marks exact position of 20°E meridian<br></div><div dir="auto">)<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><div>Similarly, I deleted "The Bermuda Triangle" earlier today referencing that DWG precedent to remove fictional locations:<br></div><div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/115688990">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/115688990</a><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">I would consider "The Bermuda Triangle" as not a fictional though as far as I know<br></div><div dir="auto">the stories around it are mix of lies, misunderstandings, failure to understand statistics<br></div><div dir="auto">and entirely natural and random anomalies. And more lies/fiction/hyperbole.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div>In the case of the Bermuda Triangle, the verifiability problem is particularly troublesome because the definition of the vertices of the triangle is entirely at the whims of which author is describing it.<br></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">That is a bigger problem in this specific case, though Null Island is nor suffering from it.<br></div> </body>
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