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<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Apr 6, 2022, 14:59 by zelonewolf@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br></div><div class=""><div class="" dir="ltr">On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 7:59 AM Frederik Ramm <<a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=""><div>Hi,<br></div><div> <br></div><div> my thought is that, in general, the default should not be added to OSM. <br></div><div> For example, I don't want 95% of streets in Germany to receive a <br></div><div> surface=asphalt or a motor_vehicle=yes!<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I tend to agree as a general rule, and I've been annoyed, for example, of StreetComplete prompting me with quests to record the surface value on every street I walk by. Of course I can configure SC to turn off this or that quest, but it seems like it would be a good cue to editor software generally to de-emphasize prompts for users to add information that is normally assumed to be a certain default in a particular country or region.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Another tagging that I think falls in this bucket (at least in my area) is when to tag lanes=*. It seems like it would not be terribly useful to tag lanes=2 on every highway=residential in my town, while it would probably be appropriate to tag lanes=* for perhaps any highway=tertiary and above regardless of value. I generally go with "common sense" on this kind of thing but it sure would be nice to be able to reference documentation on assumed defaults.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">Personally I think that it makes sense to record typical values explicitly <br></div><div dir="auto">in at least some cases. <br></div><div dir="auto">Otherwise systematic survey is basically impossible and on seeing any<br></div><div dir="auto">cobblestone street during survey you would need to check OSM is surface<br></div><div dir="auto">mapped already (and it would need to be done by every mapper).<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Especially with speed limits you need some way to mark <br></div><div dir="auto">"defaults apply here", otherwise every mapper in area would need to check<br></div><div dir="auto">every such location on their own and coordination would be impossible.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Obviously, not every value should be mapped (say, motor_vehicle=yes on<br></div><div dir="auto">motorways) in cases where it is blatantly obvious except extremely tiny minority<br></div><div dir="auto">(what qualifies here is going to be depending on mappers and on edge is<br></div><div dir="auto">going to result in discussions...).<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Curiously, I am against explicit access=yes on roads despite similar arguments <br></div><div dir="auto">apply to it as to surface=asphalt (maybe because here it is more likely that missing<br></div><div dir="auto">values will be mapped? And it is rather on minor roads of little importance?)<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div class=""><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=""><div>We need to establish good ways to make country-wide (or region-wide) <br></div><div> defaults available in a machine-readable way. Tagging those defaults <br></div><div> onto every single object in one country because the default in this <br></div><div> country might be different from the default in the next country would <br></div><div> (a) create too much data inflation and (b) mean an edit orgy every time <br></div><div> the default changes in a place.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Wikidata is a sensible place to store this information as it is here today, performant, and OSM data consumers are already using it to conflate externally-linked data with OSM. It would be very straightforward to document something like a default speed limit in a city using wikidata.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">Main problem here is that we would be putting critical part of OSM infrastructure<br></div><div dir="auto">in system not maintained or controlled by OSM.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">name-suggestion-index had already problems with some items used by it getting<br></div><div dir="auto">deleted by Wikidata admins as were no considered as passing some standards there.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It would also make mandatory for OSM contributors to accept rules of some external<br></div><div dir="auto">project if they would want to fix some issues with that data<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">> It would be very straightforward to document something like a default speed limit<br></div><div dir="auto">> in a city using wikidata.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Can you give example of that?<br></div><div dir="auto">I expect that for people who have no experience with Wikidata it would be not<br></div><div dir="auto">be very straightforward.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I have some experience and I am not sure how it would be done (which property<br></div><div dir="auto">code would be used?)<br></div> </body>
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