<div dir="auto">I have done some local spot checks. Results were clusters of errors by just two users, both clearly missing "s" type errors. Both users are heavy contributors. I would propose manual repair, not Maproulette, as the errors are spatially clustered.<div dir="auto">Volker</div><div dir="auto">(Italy)</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 19 May 2022, 13:08 , <<a href="mailto:talk-request@openstreetmap.org">talk-request@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send talk mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Could I globally replace [building:level] with<br>
[building:levels] ? (Dave F)<br>
2. Re: Could I globally replace [building:level] with<br>
[building:levels] ? (Simon Poole)<br>
3. Re: Could I globally replace [building:level] with<br>
[building:levels] ? (Andy Townsend)<br>
4. Re: Could I globally replace [building:level] with<br>
[building:levels] ? (Martin Koppenhoefer)<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 18:38:36 +0100<br>
From: Dave F <<a href="mailto:davefoxfac63@btinternet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">davefoxfac63@btinternet.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Could I globally replace [building:level] with<br>
[building:levels] ?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:a517e7b2-55e3-7845-eb69-ddd29eec4c04@btinternet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">a517e7b2-55e3-7845-eb69-ddd29eec4c04@btinternet.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 17/05/2022 15:27, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
><br>
> particularly when there is no clear root cause. <br>
<br>
If there is a specific reason it's good to sort it, but it doesn't <br>
invalidate correcting errors.<br>
<br>
> Then there is the issue that the data in the tags might not be valid <br>
> to start with and that has simply been hidden by the invalid key up to <br>
> now,<br>
<br>
If there were errors previously in the value tags, there will still e <br>
the same number of errors afterwards. Unhiding the key means they're <br>
more likely to be spotted & corrected<br>
<br>
<br>
> ? for example there are nearly 100 -1 values <br>
<br>
There are 636 cases with 'building:levels' so I fail to see your point.<br>
><br>
> only has a very minor impact on data quality<br>
<br>
Again, doesn't invalidate error correction.<br>
<br>
> and leave things as if,<br>
<br>
This is illogical to improving the quality of the OSM database.<br>
We allow every new users (those most likely to make tagging errors) to <br>
start amending immediately, which I concur with, yet there's this <br>
reluctance among some contributors? to allow corrections by amendments <br>
or deletions.<br>
<br>
DaveF<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 23:16:11 +0200<br>
From: Simon Poole <<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">simon@poole.ch</a>><br>
To: Dave F <<a href="mailto:davefoxfac63@btinternet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">davefoxfac63@btinternet.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Could I globally replace [building:level] with<br>
[building:levels] ?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:461cb0a4-d968-8103-dc35-30d65a4579ef@poole.ch" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">461cb0a4-d968-8103-dc35-30d65a4579ef@poole.ch</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 18.05.2022 um 19:38 schrieb Dave F:<br>
> ....<br>
> Again, doesn't invalidate error correction.<br>
><br>
>> and leave things as if,<br>
><br>
> This is illogical to improving the quality of the OSM database.<br>
> We allow every new users (those most likely to make tagging errors) to <br>
> start amending immediately, which I concur with, yet there's this <br>
> reluctance among some contributors? to allow corrections by amendments <br>
> or deletions.<br>
><br>
I didn't suggest that errors shouldn't or couldn't be fixed, just that <br>
in the absence of a clear root cause (which in an ideal case would <br>
indicate what the correct fix is), we are likely just replacing errors <br>
with errors with a mechanical edit, except now we've lost the marker <br>
that there is actually an issue.<br>
<br>
So the best way to improve the data quality is to create a maproulette <br>
challenge or similar and have the correct values verified.<br>
<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 23:06:02 +0100<br>
From: Andy Townsend <<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Could I globally replace [building:level] with<br>
[building:levels] ?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:840b3503-2e12-8bbf-3bc1-9c4164d2647e@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">840b3503-2e12-8bbf-3bc1-9c4164d2647e@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
On 17/05/2022 15:27, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
><br>
> Obviously common sense should be applied, but as you correctly note <br>
> changing 10k objects globally is touchy, particularly when there is no <br>
> clear root cause. So as a first step I would try to determine if there <br>
> is a reason for the mistagging and if yes fix that first, it might be <br>
> as simple as a typo in a preset. <br>
<br>
To get an idea of the source of the problem it's possible to just select <br>
one value from<br>
<br>
<a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building%3Alevel#values" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building%3Alevel#values</a><br>
<br>
and sample the results.? Taking "4" as an example,<br>
<br>
* The originating editor seems to be either iD or JOSM (probably more<br>
iD than JOSM, but I presume more buildings are added with iD than JOSM)<br>
* The originating date is a fairly wide range.? Some are 10 years old,<br>
some recent.<br>
* There are more errors where English isn't a first language<br>
<br>
There is a "long tail" of silly values (the previously mentioned "-1" on <br>
page 1, and also others starting on page 2 of <br>
<a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building%3Alevel#values" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building%3Alevel#values</a> ) that <br>
need looking at in more detail.<br>
<br>
It's pretty clear what <br>
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2517761586/history" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2517761586/history</a> is trying to say <br>
with "building:level" and it's not "this building has -1 levels".<br>
<br>
I'm sure that it would be possible to do a sensible mechanical edit here <br>
that fixed <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/160054444" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/160054444</a> but left some of <br>
the others, but it wouldn't just be "change all key X to key Y" worldwide.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Andy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 09:49:18 +0200<br>
From: Martin Koppenhoefer <<a href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Andy Townsend <<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Could I globally replace [building:level] with<br>
[building:levels] ?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CABPTjTBenJe4A7MvAcu05O45oofnQgeG_7KQqBsGzg9EY4zcKA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CABPTjTBenJe4A7MvAcu05O45oofnQgeG_7KQqBsGzg9EY4zcKA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
sent from a phone<br>
<br>
On 19 May 2022, at 00:10, Andy Townsend <<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
It's pretty clear what <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2517761586/history" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2517761586/history</a><br>
is trying to say with "building:level" and it's not "this building has -1<br>
levels".<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
with entrance I am using ?level? for these situations, which is quite<br>
common tagging (69423 instances)<br>
<a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/level#combinations" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/level#combinations</a><br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<br>
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