<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
Hi Dennis,<br>
<br>
> We are quite safe in Taiwan, with only the navy and the air
force on high alert. I am aware of the CoC, is there any method that
the community could do if one person, is not paying attention to a
real discussion, and keep saying his own country's narrative?<br>
<br>
Sorry, I don't understand the acronym CoC but one immediate tool you
have is to simply send them a link to:<br>
<br>
"Information for officials and diplomats of countries and entities
with disputed territories"<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Policies_and_other_Documents">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Policies_and_other_Documents</a> "<a
href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf"
class="internal" title="DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf">Disputed
Territories</a> " policy document.<br>
<br>
I wrote this in 2013. I think the Borders and boundaries section is
a little sparse and could do with some re-work but it still makes
the general points: 1. Using the boundaries of whomever is in
control, (whether we like them or not), is generally the most useful
for the most people. 2. If you don't like that, then make and host
your own map using your own boundaries. OSM is a database not a map.<br>
<br>
Thinking further ahead, one thing I'd like to see but have hesitated
to push as I don't have time to get involved myself is a separate
OpenStreetMap run/supported boundaries database to host alternative
sets of boundaries on a strictly neutral basis. Anyone can
contribute, optionally on an immutable and/or authoritative basis.
Anyone can then use it, and if they don't, well, tough. This meets
the general OpenStreetMap ethos of not putting obstacles in the way
of anyone wanting to do something a certain way. It is up to data
users as to whether is sinks or swims.<br>
<br>
Another thing on my wishlist is a more comprehensive approach to
supporting alternate national (or, more generally but off topic,
special interest) maps via our main website. At minimum this can be
a links to maps on national-level Openstreetmap sites that already
exist. Trying to be neutral, I think it is a bit unfair to tell
folks, "go and make your own map", as I have done above, without
providing some sort of framework to present it to the general world.
And at a more Machiavellian level, if we de-focus from the de facto
one true map we have at the moment, there is less incentive to
demand that it presents a particular view of the world. Again, we
are a database not a map.<br>
<br>
<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-08-09 04:12, Dennis Raylin Chen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALK=LD34qAJu_3-B5jovNo6uCxdoO_xHxYoDP8w_HLGMTzYM6w@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi mailing list subscribers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First, we should change the email subject to reflect a more
neutral viewpoint</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Apology to the mailing list subscribers, for bringing the
issue on the Talk-TW forum to the Anglosphere. There is not
only a high alert around Taiwan Strait but also on the online
forum.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The original sender from China, erik2012 used United State
documents, trying to prove that China owns Taiwan, Taiwan
should not map as a country, it is not a fact according to
erik2012.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The OpenStreetMap Taiwan community members replied to his
message, and one of them, Greg Chao-Kuei Hung already pointed
to the disrupt page on OSM Wiki, and the original sender from
China is still unhappy about it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For people not familiar with Taiwan, after the People's
Republic of China was established, they have not controlled
Taiwan for a single day. Taiwan has its own government, and
after 1996 hold the first presidential election under China's
missile threat.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Steven Shiau from Open Source Lab, Narl Labs of Taiwan said
on the mailing list, erik2012 could freely express his view on
the Taiwan forum, even though against the fact and other
readers' options. And other subscribers were not happy about
his One China policy from China(People's Republic of China),
and reply to refute his statement.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We are quite safe in Taiwan, with only the navy and the air
force on high alert. I am aware of the CoC, is there any
method that the community could do if one person, is not
paying attention to a real discussion, and keep saying his own
country's narrative?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dennis<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">洪朝貴 <<a
href="mailto:ckhung@cyut.edu.tw" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ckhung@cyut.edu.tw</a>>
於 2022年8月9日 週二 上午8:10寫道：<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">你走錯地方囉。</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><span
class="gmail_default">"</span>effective and
sustained control"<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">如果你想要修改這幾個詞
(還有 "on the ground" rule) ，</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">應該直接去向該頁面的管理員反應。</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>--<br>
顧好自己的隱私， 快停止網路裸奔！</div>
<div>請搜尋『貴哥的節慾手機』<br>
Greg Chao-Kuei Hung 洪朝貴<br>
<br>
PGP Key ID: 4096R/5828A7A7<br>
Fingerprint: 67AF B5AB 5242 3E99 16D7 EAF8
A94D 2C92 5828 A7A7<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">erik2012 <<a
href="mailto:erik2012@protonmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">erik2012@protonmail.com</a>>
於 2022年8月9日 週二 清晨6:26寫道：<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">抱歉，我對您的答覆仍不滿意。<br>
<br>
如果您要說有爭議的話，世界上祇有一個中國，台灣是中國的一部分，中國人民共和國政府是代表中國的唯一合法政府，這是國際公認的事實，也是原則和底線。<br>
<br>
關於歷史遺留問題，也將在歷史漫漫長河中得到解決。我希望你們修正這個地圖錯誤。<br>
<br>
詳見聯合國大會1971年第2758號決議(<a
href="https://unog.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/41UNOG_INST/1f1c8ab/cdi_springer_books_10_1007_978_94_6265_403_7_9)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://unog.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/41UNOG_INST/1f1c8ab/cdi_springer_books_10_1007_978_94_6265_403_7_9)</a>。<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On Aug 8, 2022, 23:03, 洪朝貴 < <a
href="mailto:ckhung@cyut.edu.tw" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ckhung@cyut.edu.tw</a>>
wrote:
<blockquote><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:large"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes</a><br
clear="all">
</div>
<div style="font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:large">In the case where
there are multiple local names, then if the
government
with <span class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:large"></span>effective and
sustained control of the area has an official
source
of names or an official stance on a naming
dispute, then that name is
default.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:large">Case closed.</div>
<div style="font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>--<br>
顧好自己的隱私， 快停止網路裸奔！</div>
<div>請搜尋『貴哥的節慾手機』<br>
Greg Chao-Kuei Hung 洪朝貴<br>
<br>
PGP Key ID: 4096R/5828A7A7<br>
Fingerprint: 67AF B5AB 5242 3E99 16D7
EAF8 A94D 2C92 5828 A7A7<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">erik2012 via
Talk-TW <<a
href="mailto:talk-tw@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">talk-tw@openstreetmap.org</a>>
於 2022年8月8日 週一 晚上10:17寫道：<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi，<br>
<br>
1.標題講的很明白，關於錯誤的地圖數據，即將台灣島分割出中華人民共和國並將其標註為“中華民國”的這一行為。就事論事。所以我並沒有來錯地方，也不存在所謂的“不清楚為什麼來討論”。<br>
2.這不是政治口號，這是國際上公認的事實，我在一開始就給出了依據。我不是故意來“引戰”，我所說的會讓你慢慢見證。<br>
3.我沒有不尊重你，同時也謝謝你尊重我。事實上我不理解您為何説我不尊重你，第一封email全文都在講史實，也並沒有髒话等不文明行為。如果有，請詳細告知<br>
4.感謝你的建議，我不會收回我的言論，且我認為沒有什麼冒犯的問題存在，我願意為我的言論承擔責任。<br>
5.我不強求您回覆我的訊息，是否回覆它完全取決於您的想法。<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
祝好，<br>
Erik<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-TW mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-TW@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Talk-TW@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tw"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tw</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>