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<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>May 16, 2023, 19:22 by ajt1047@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div class="">On 24/04/2023 16:57, Mateusz Konieczny
via talk wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Apr 22, 2023, 14:10 by <a class="" href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>:<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;" class="tutanota_quote"><div>More generally, anyone with half a brain consuming OSM shop
data (or actually, _any_ external data from _anywhere_) will
look at the values contained in it***.<br></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">And that is exactly what lead to proposing this
edits - I was writing code to handle OSM<br></div><div dir="auto">data and researched tagging situation. And one
of[1] effects was discovering numerous<br></div><div dir="auto">cases of tags that seem to be exact duplicates of
more standard ones, and retagging<br></div><div dir="auto">them seems to clearly improve OSM data as far as I
can see<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></blockquote><p>Your continued tagfiddling here is making it much harder for
local mappers to find problem values in OSM data.<br></p><p>No-one's going to complain about you changing "shop=shoe" to
"shop=shoes" - they clearly have the same meaning, so changing the
less common form to the more common form is a net benefit.<br></p><p>However, your recent changes have gone much further than this,
included changing shops with values you don't understand into
"shop=yes". <br></p></blockquote><div dir="auto">For start: no such changes will be made, if requested I can revert changes<br></div><div dir="auto">of shop=fixme to shop=yes if it is disputed.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-----------<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But I do not really agree with some claims made here and want to explain why.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For start there is a long list of shop values which meaning I do not understand<br></div><div dir="auto">(for example, from start of list of exactly such values:<br></div><div dir="auto">shop=grossery, shop=towing, shop=showroom, shop=salon, shop=garage,<br></div><div dir="auto">shop=pond, shop=consignment...)<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This change was made because it was carrying no real info and was obscure value<br></div><div dir="auto">unlikely to be found and handled by mappers.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="auto">As an example, consider <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/353944525" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/353944525</a> . It was previously
"shop=retail", an unusual and rare tag that would likely flag up
the interest of a passing local mapper. You changed it to
"shop=yes", of which there are 180,000 of in OSM. <br></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">Except people using JOSM validator*, iD, StreetComplete and other tools with special<br></div><div dir="auto">support for shop=yes as feature tag. Note that this tools are more or less proactive<br></div><div dir="auto">while shop with unusual values will be spotted solely by manual checks<br></div><div dir="auto">(as listing all unusual shop values is far from helpful and requires a long<br></div><div dir="auto">filtering to skip undocumented values, aliases, confusing values carrying some info)<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">*and therefore also Osmose, though I would not recommend this QA tool<br></div><div dir="auto"><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="auto">No-one is going to spot that as an "unusual" shop at all. <br></div></blockquote><div>Thousands/tens of thousands were fixed already, at least 10 000 would be <br></div><div dir="auto">definitely not spotted and not fixed if they would be just one of 10237 rare shop values.<br></div><div><br></div></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="auto">This one's actually a
charity shop, and a question about it on IRC would have got that
response in only a few minutes (or a glance at taginfo/overpass: <a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=Lighthouse%20Charity%20Shop#overview" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=Lighthouse%20Charity%20Shop#overview</a> / <a href="https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1v3j" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1v3j</a> ).<br></div><p>Changing "invalid" (by whatever definition) values to "valid but
incorrect" ones does not improve the quality of OSM, and it
actually hides problems so that they are much harder to fix in the
future.<br></p></blockquote><div dir="auto">I would describe this change as "invalid unusual value" to "invalid common value,<br></div><div dir="auto">supported by QA tools and more likely to be fixed or specially supported"<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><p>In the case of the changesets that I've seen just now and
commented on (see <a href="https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=3199858" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=3199858</a> ) many are by longstanding contributors to OSM. In many cases a
comment on a previous changeset would have got the answer "yes,
obviously that should be a shop=xyz" (rather than you just setting
it to shop=yes). <br></p></blockquote><div dir="auto">I am doing also this - and maybe opening notes/making changeset comments first<br></div><div dir="auto">in all such cases would be preferable.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="auto"> I thought that after the discussion on <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/134837986" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/134837986</a> that you weren't
going to mass-change actual values to shop=yes any more, but
clearly I was wrong.<br></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">So you would consider any and all changes to shop=yes as making things worse?<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="auto">(for the avoidance of doubt, writing in a personal capacity)<br></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">the same<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div> </body>
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