From cm-sanitas at wp.pl  Wed Feb  1 18:34:53 2017
From: cm-sanitas at wp.pl (Mariusz Rogowski)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2017 19:34:53 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Make Nominatim more dev friendly
Message-ID: <58922a4deb5d84.82130123@wp.pl>

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From lonvia at denofr.de  Wed Feb  1 20:53:11 2017
From: lonvia at denofr.de (Sarah Hoffmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 20:53:11 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] Make Nominatim more dev friendly
In-Reply-To: <58922a4deb5d84.82130123@wp.pl>
References: <58922a4deb5d84.82130123@wp.pl>
Message-ID: <20170201205311.GA12865@denofr.de>

Hi Mariusz,

(cross-posting to talk removed, as this is essentially a dev mail)

I'm glad to hear that you are concerned about Nominatim development.
That makes two of us. As a software developer, the most effective
way to change things is to start contributing code. So here are a few
pointers for that.

The outstanding pull requests you mention are a very good place to start.
There are quite a few which have not been merged because there are
outstanding comments from me which the original authors never addressed.
In particular, I'd like to point to:

https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/pull/552
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/pull/439
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/pull/429

They are pretty far along. They would need to be updated to the current
master version and have the remaining issues fixed.

If that's not to your liking you can also look through the issues.
Anything marked 'enhancement' is particularly suited for external
contributions. I haven't marked the difficulty level but here are
a few examples, I'd consider good starting points for first time
code contributors:

https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/562
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/135
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/171
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/255
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/344
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/311

The comments on the issues can be sparse at times, so feel free to ask
for clarifications. As a general rule, it is also a good idea to quickly
outline your implementation idea first, in particular where the solution
is not obvious or where larger changes are required. That helps avoid
disappointment during PR review.

If you have general questions about the source code, the geocoding@
mailing list is the right place to ask.

Sarah
(Nominatim lead developer)


On Wed, Feb 01, 2017 at 07:34:53PM +0100, Mariusz Rogowski wrote:
> <style>blockquote {padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: #cccccc 1px solid;} p {margin: 0px;padding: 0px;} </style>
> <p>Hi,<br />I am not sure if this is right pleace to rise my concerns or if they are welcomed here. But I will give it a try.<br /><br />I am not an active member of community, I am software developer who sporadically has to geocode some addresses. For some regions of the world OSM is the best source of data and it is a shame tools for searching the data fall behind. In my opinion Nominatim could have been very useful service which would promote OSM usage. Seriously, for many applications 
> searching addresses is very important feature. Nominatim should be like second most important service given to the world by OSM. Unfortunately it seems to be far away from the spotlight and people might not be aware of its problems. What I mean is:<br />1. There are pull requests (i.e. probably finished features ready to integrate with project) starting from year 2012. Yes - somebody contributed to the project and is wating 5 years to have his contribution accepted. [1]<br />2. There are over 
> 100 issues opened starting from 2013. [2]<br />3. Project is understaffed (which I guess can happen). But its maintainers are aware of it and do not do anything to change it. [3]<br /><br />Anyway, I work in software development and I could be contributing to the project. But fact the contributions are ignored, maintainers are frustrated (and it shows) make me thing it is a waste of time. Even providing real life examples of wrong geocoding (so the test cases could be extended) ends with some 
> unfriendliness and ignorance. [4]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br />I understand there are probably valid reasons for current state and atitude. But discussing it does not really interests me. I wish to change things ;) Unfortunately there's not much I can do about it apart from pointing the problems to wider audience. <br /><br />Anyway, I think the solutions to the problems are quite obvious. How can I convince someone to make the project open and friendly to new collaborators?<br /><br 
> />Mariusz<br /><br />[1] - https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/pulls<br />[2] - https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues<br />[3] - https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/316#issuecomment-147111016<br />[4] - https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/467<br /><br /></p><br />
> 
> 
> 

> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



From frederik at remote.org  Wed Feb  1 23:14:59 2017
From: frederik at remote.org (Frederik Ramm)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 00:14:59 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Make Nominatim more dev friendly
In-Reply-To: <58922a4deb5d84.82130123@wp.pl>
References: <58922a4deb5d84.82130123@wp.pl>
Message-ID: <88dd2227-4d57-bcb4-0155-2c8a836e8e4e@remote.org>

Hi,

   I'm not a Nominatim developer but I've followed Nominatim development
and issues for a while. One thing that contributes to the impression
that "pull requests/issues are ignored" is that Nominatim aims to be a
good, or at least a functioning, geocoder for the whole planet.
Contributors (understandably - that's how Open Source works) often
scratch their own itch, they find a problem with Spanish addresses and
submit a fix - but they don't notice (or care) that it breaks geocoding
elsewhere (for example https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4895 where
someone adds stop words).

It is then the role of the Nominatim developers to think about the
effects the contributor might have been missing, and tell him or her
"sorry, but that doesn't work for us".

This is actually good and important - it may look unfriendly to you
(albeit there's nothing unfriendly in the ticket I quoted) but in fact
it ensures that Nominatim doesn't break for some country once a week.

> Unfortunately there's not much I can do about it apart
> from pointing the problems to wider audience.

You said you're a developer, have you actually tried to participate in
the Nominatim devlopment?

> [4] - https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/467

Are you the user "sanitas2" from this issue? I've read through it and I
must say that I find the reaction of the developers absolutely
understandable. I don't think you have been helpful, respectful, or
polite in that issue.

> Anyway, I think the solutions to the problems are quite obvious. How can I convince someone to make the project open and friendly to new collaborators?

I think this public claim that the current developers ignore "obvious
solutions" won't do much good to improve their enthusiasm. What is your
suggestion? Chuck out the "unfriendly" developers and replace them with
whom? Or force the developers to spend more of their spare time trying
to understand your issue?

Can you point me to a good pull request that you have submitted and that
was ignored/rejected even though it didn't break anything?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


From cm-sanitas at wp.pl  Thu Feb  2 09:50:24 2017
From: cm-sanitas at wp.pl (Mariusz Rogowski)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 10:50:24 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Odp: Re: [OSM-talk] Make Nominatim more dev friendly
Message-ID: <589300e07c0d81.84075960@wp.pl>

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From cm-sanitas at wp.pl  Thu Feb  2 09:53:35 2017
From: cm-sanitas at wp.pl (Mariusz Rogowski)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 10:53:35 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Odp: Re:  Make Nominatim more dev friendly
Message-ID: <5893019faa4c10.45146162@wp.pl>

Dnia Czwartek, 2 Lutego 2017 00:14 Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> napisał(a)

>    I'm not a Nominatim developer but I've followed Nominatim development
> and issues for a while. One thing that contributes to the impression
> that "pull requests/issues are ignored" is that Nominatim aims to be a
> good, or at least a functioning, geocoder for the whole planet.
> Contributors (understandably - that's how Open Source works) often
> scratch their own itch, they find a problem with Spanish addresses and
> submit a fix - but they don't notice (or care) that it breaks geocoding
> elsewhere (for example https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4895 where
> someone adds stop words).
>  

That's why it is important to prepare extensive test suite (also enabling some locale parameter for searches would be nice to have). Than just don't allow pull requests which don't pass existing tests. Easy ;)

>  
> You said you're a developer, have you actually tried to participate in
> the Nominatim devlopment?

Not yet. Lack of guide, architere descriptions, mentioned pull requests and lack of knowledge of some kind of big picture is not encouraging.

>  
> > [4] - https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/467
>  
> Are you the user "sanitas2" from this issue? I've read through it and I
> must say that I find the reaction of the developers absolutely
> understandable. I don't think you have been helpful, respectful, or
> polite in that issue.
>  

I think both sides could have behave better.

> > Anyway, I think the solutions to the problems are quite obvious. How can I convince someone to make the project open and friendly to new collaborators?
>  
> I think this public claim that the current developers ignore "obvious
> solutions" won't do much good to improve their enthusiasm. What is your
> suggestion? Chuck out the "unfriendly" developers and replace them with
> whom? Or force the developers to spend more of their spare time trying
> to understand your issue?
>  

By obvious steps I mean:
1. Make current maintainers stop working on existing issues (if they don't have time). The biggest issue right now is the project is not attractive to new developers. Fix that first. What I mean in details e.g. is: 
 - Close pending (for years) pull requests.
 - Prepare nice project readme which mentions contributors are needed and welcomed.
 - Prepare documentation of existing code base. Things like architecture, languages used, test approach etc.
 - Prepare some contribution guidelines.
 - Prepare some big picture. Project is quite old, I guess technologies and architecture chosen might be quite obsolete. Maybe someone should review the current approach and decide on some bigger targets than fixing single small issues. E.g. sometimes I feel that that putting address data to some search engine could get rid of lots of logic in Nominatim code.

Anyway, make the project as attractive as possible for new people. There are people who want to contribute to open source projects. You could get contributors from Google Summer of Code, Hacktoberfest, Hackathons and Code Retreats. But you need to make project look like it's worth ones time.

2. Ask for help/feedback OSM partners or universities. E.g. mapquest provides Nominatim service. Maybe they won't be able to do any coding, but maybe they might have some thoughts about direction project should go. As of universities, every year hundreds of people are looking for project for master thesis, making them know there is interesting topic available may attract them to Nominatim.

3. Announce the project needs contributors on OSM blog/website.

4. Maybe OSM fundations should consider hiring people to work on OSM projects?

Those are ideas from top of my mind. Maybe not the best ones, but still those are better things to do than complain about being understaffed ;)




 





From tom at compton.nu  Thu Feb  2 10:28:18 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 10:28:18 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Odp: Re: Make Nominatim more dev friendly
In-Reply-To: <5893019faa4c10.45146162@wp.pl>
References: <5893019faa4c10.45146162@wp.pl>
Message-ID: <267fdb13-6c74-4f76-cdba-33f0e2a4495e@compton.nu>

On 02/02/17 09:53, Mariusz Rogowski wrote:

> By obvious steps I mean:
> 1. Make current maintainers stop working on existing issues (if they don't have time). The biggest issue right now is the project is not attractive to new developers. Fix that first. What I mean in details e.g. is:
>  - Close pending (for years) pull requests.
>  - Prepare nice project readme which mentions contributors are needed and welcomed.
>  - Prepare documentation of existing code base. Things like architecture, languages used, test approach etc.
>  - Prepare some contribution guidelines.
>  - Prepare some big picture. Project is quite old, I guess technologies and architecture chosen might be quite obsolete. Maybe someone should review the current approach and decide on some bigger targets than fixing single small issues. E.g. sometimes I feel that that putting address data to some search engine could get rid of lots of logic in Nominatim code.
>
> Anyway, make the project as attractive as possible for new people. There are people who want to contribute to open source projects. You could get contributors from Google Summer of Code, Hacktoberfest, Hackathons and Code Retreats. But you need to make project look like it's worth ones time.

Firstly nobody can "make current maintainers" do anything - that's not 
how open source software works. People work on the things they're 
interested in and maintainers do their best to make some sense of the 
results and construct a coherent result.

More constructively, if you think those things are important then why 
not work on some of them?

It seems like some of them at least are things that would actually be a 
good way for somebody who wanted to get involved could get started - as 
you explore the code and learn about it you can document what you find 
and submit that as a pull request to add new documentation where things 
are lacking?

Likewise anybody could write a nice README encouraging people to get 
involved and I'm sure the maintainers would be happy to merge it.

Or you could draft some contribution guidelines - those might need to go 
round a few cycles of review to fit with the maintainers preferences but 
much of the work of writing them could be done by somebody else and 
offering something (however minimal) is a constructive way of suggesting 
that some guidelines be added that will likely work better than 
complaining that they are missing.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From ronakjainc at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 06:34:05 2017
From: ronakjainc at gmail.com (Ronak Jain)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:04:05 +0530
Subject: [OSM-dev] GSoC 2017
Message-ID: <CAKk+wUvUBUifmq5CdduC1yobRfFtEb2=worcVYuiisFfcZBOLg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

My name is Ronak Jain, studying final year Computer Science & Engineering
from Visvesvaraya technological university, India. This summer I would like
to GSoC with OpenStreetMap, as I am really keen on working with an
interesting and challenging project which matches my skills and provides a
room for learning.

About my experience:
I have contributed to plenty of open source projects in the past which
include Google/Flatbuffers, Grpc, and other smaller projects. I am the
author of "Grpc-go interface generator with flatbuffers" which is one of my
greatest contribution which I am proud of. I have extensively worked with
C, C++ and Go, comfortable with java, ruby, python, and javascript. I have
worked on projects such as Bittorrent client, Online Judge etc. which are
available in my profile on GitHub. I have also published apps on Google
play store.
References: Play store
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Ronak> Github
<https://github.com/jronak>

I am aware of the fact that selected GSOC organizations will be released by
the last week of Feb, but I believe in preparing early and would like to
get used to the development environment of OSM by learning the technologies
which could be used in the project and communicate with the potential
mentor to understand the project really well to be able to write a good
proposal.

After going through the list of possible idea's for this summer, I would
like to consider
Full cgimap write support
Full cgimap read-only support
I have chosen these as I have good experience with the languages being used
in the project also I have worked with Postgres earlier. I will choose the
idea after speaking with the mentor and deciding what could be additionally
added to the project.

I would like to know,
how can I get started with the project?
are there any bite-sized project or bugs that could be fixed?
what are the steps I could take to increase my acceptance rate?

I have created an account with OSM and will contribute to the map based on
my local area, also I have read the GSoC students guide. I would like to
know if mentors have any suggestions regarding the project and best
practices.

Thank you,
Ronak Jain
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From davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com  Thu Feb  2 15:06:31 2017
From: davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com (Dave F)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 15:06:31 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] Make Nominatim more dev friendly
In-Reply-To: <20170201205311.GA12865@denofr.de>
References: <58922a4deb5d84.82130123@wp.pl> <20170201205311.GA12865@denofr.de>
Message-ID: <58934AF7.50904@btinternet.com>

Wouldn't it be better to make it more user friendly?[1]

I'd have thought popular projects where there's a clear benefit & a 
sustainable future would attract more developers.

[1] Does the viewbox option work? With it ticked, it still found a 
street miles away from the city in the window. (Yes, the city does have 
the street)

DaveF


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From penorman at mac.com  Thu Feb  2 22:32:46 2017
From: penorman at mac.com (Paul Norman)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 14:32:46 -0800
Subject: [OSM-dev] GSoC 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAKk+wUvUBUifmq5CdduC1yobRfFtEb2=worcVYuiisFfcZBOLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKk+wUvUBUifmq5CdduC1yobRfFtEb2=worcVYuiisFfcZBOLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <13754114-3408-61e8-3aa6-04c18f157995@mac.com>

On 2/1/2017 10:34 PM, Ronak Jain wrote:
> After going through the list of possible idea's for this summer, I 
> would like to consider
> Full cgimap write support
> Full cgimap read-only support
> I have chosen these as I have good experience with the languages being 
> used in the project also I have worked with Postgres earlier. I will 
> choose the idea after speaking with the mentor and deciding what could 
> be additionally added to the project.
>
> I would like to know,
> how can I get started with the project?

I would start by reading 
http://www.asklater.com/matt/blog/2015/11/18/the-road-to-api-07/. This 
places the GSoC work in the context of the problems and other work needed.

Then, as you've mentioned, map a bit. All the editors interact with the 
API. I would start with iD, the default web-based editor, but then try 
JOSM, which is a java-based desktop editor. It is much easier to 
investigate the API calls with JOSM.

After mapping normally a bit, look over 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6, in particular the Elements 
part (2.4) and Changesets (2.2). Then start JOSM from the command line 
so that there's a java console and map some more, looking at the API 
calls JOSM makes, and how they related to what you're doing.

> are there any bite-sized project or bugs that could be fixed?

https://github.com/zerebubuth/openstreetmap-cgimap is the repository for 
cgimap, and it's issue tracker is on GitHub. #90 and #84 seem like easy 
ones where most of the work will be getting familiar with the project.

https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website is the other 
project to be familiar with (It's called "The Rails Port"). It powers 
the website, and for various reasons, all the API calls cgimap does are 
also implemented in it. cgimap-ruby aims to end this duplication.

> what are the steps I could take to increase my acceptance rate?

Asking in advance is good, as many students don't ;)

Working on a plan would be good. I recommend giving some consideration to

- Which API calls you will work on
- How you will test the cgimap part
- How you will test that cgimap and the rails port have the same behavior

None of these need to be complete, but having given some thought to what 
to do puts you well ahead of most potential students.


From bryan at 7thposition.com  Sat Feb  4 15:55:02 2017
From: bryan at 7thposition.com (Bryan Housel)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 10:55:02 -0500
Subject: [OSM-dev] iD news:  v2.1.0 released
Message-ID: <CEF790BE-4242-4B0E-B6BE-AA9CA55B0C8E@7thposition.com>

iD v2.1.0 was released Feb 4 2017 and is now available for editing on openstreetmap.org <http://openstreetmap.org/>

Here are some of our favorite new features:
- Disconnected endpoints now appear slightly larger, and iD will warn if a user creates a disconnected road
- Improved save flow directs users to enter their comment and upload their changes (some users would miss that step)
- RTL languages like Arabic and Hebrew are now drawn correctly along line paths (thanks Milad Karbasizadeh)
- Improved checks to avoid creation of duplicate consecutive nodes and invalid geometries (thanks slhh)
- Users must select vertices and nodes before dragging them, preventing accidental drags (thanks Eduard Popov)
- Now support KML and GeoJSON in addition to GPX files (thanks Mert Emin Kalender)
- Icons were refreshed to use the latest Maki iconset (thanks Ajith Ranka)
- Better country-specific customization of address fields (thanks Natsuyasumi)
- Reflect operations!  You can now reflect shapes with T ↔️ and Y ↕️  (thanks Psigio)

By my count, 17 people contributed to this release, which feels like a record high.  Thank you everyone for an awesome start to 2017!  

If you are interested in contributing, or just want to see what we are up to, please follow and star the iD project on GitHub https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD <https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD> 


Changelog: 
   https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#210 <https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#210>

Twitter:  
  v2.1.0: https://twitter.com/bhousel/status/827875204546306049 <https://twitter.com/bhousel/status/827875204546306049>
  New Icons: https://twitter.com/bhousel/status/827724917806346241 <https://twitter.com/bhousel/status/827724917806346241>
  Follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/bhousel <https://twitter.com/bhousel> for more iD updates.


Thanks! 🙇
Bryan

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From ronakjainc at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 17:48:49 2017
From: ronakjainc at gmail.com (Ronak Jain)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 23:18:49 +0530
Subject: [OSM-dev] GSoC 2017
Message-ID: <CAKk+wUvATCOMP5E2ZEjZh4vDy6325Auz=-GtsePveZf=9MWayA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I would start by reading
> http://www.asklater.com/matt/blog/2015/11/18/the-road-to-api-07/. This
> places the GSoC work in the context of the problems and other work needed.
> Then, as you've mentioned, map a bit. All the editors interact with the
> API. I would start with iD, the default web-based editor, but then try
> JOSM, which is a java-based desktop editor. It is much easier to
> investigate the API calls with JOSM.
> After mapping normally a bit, look over
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6, in particular the Elements
> part (2.4) and Changesets (2.2). Then start JOSM from the command line
> so that there's a java console and map some more, looking at the API
> calls JOSM makes, and how they related to what you're doing.

Yes, I have started using iD and adding changes to the map. As suggested
I'll use JOSM as well to understand the API's.


> https://github.com/zerebubuth/openstreetmap-cgimap is the repository for
> cgimap, and it's issue tracker is on GitHub. #90 and #84 seem like easy
> ones where most of the work will be getting familiar with the project.
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website is the other
> project to be familiar with (It's called "The Rails Port"). It powers
> the website, and for various reasons, all the API calls cgimap does are
> also implemented in it. cgimap-ruby aims to end this duplication.

I'll read through the code, run it and test it by myself and then start
fixing the easy issues which you have out pointed to and yes, I'll look
into the website as well.

Working on a plan would be good. I recommend giving some consideration to
> - Which API calls you will work on
> - How you will test the cgimap part
> - How you will test that cgimap and the rails port have the same behavior
> None of these need to be complete, but having given some thought to what
> to do puts you well ahead of most potential students.

I will definitely figure these out as I work on the project and should be
able to discuss with you. Thanks a lot for the suggestion.

Is it okay if I could communicate with you directly on your email or
dev-list should be fine?.

Again thank you very much, I will get back to you soon.
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From penorman at mac.com  Tue Feb  7 03:35:15 2017
From: penorman at mac.com (Paul Norman)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 19:35:15 -0800
Subject: [OSM-dev] osm2pgsql default database change
Message-ID: <559307ab-6d4f-b3ee-30b9-4ce53a7f1add@mac.com>

The behavior of osm2pgsql when no database is specified is changing in 
the next release. New releases will rely on libpq to pick the database 
if nothing is explicitly specified, typically either resulting in a 
database of what the PGDATABASE environment variable is set to, or the 
user's name.

If you are writing scripts that call osm2pgsql and rely on the default 
behavior, you should add --database gis to your command line. This is a 
good practice, even if you don't plan on updating.

Details on the change are at 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/pull/685



From nebulon42 at mailbox.org  Sat Feb 11 21:31:56 2017
From: nebulon42 at mailbox.org (nebulon42)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:31:56 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Release of carto 0.17.2
Message-ID: <a88495bc-8a9b-776a-cdbc-524572ddf7c7@mailbox.org>

This is to announce the availability of CartoCSS aka carto 0.17.2
(https://github.com/mapbox/carto) on NPM.

Details regarding the new version can be found in the changelog at
https://github.com/mapbox/carto/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md.

This release aimed at fixing some long standing bugs. Notable changes
include:

* Carto can now run also in the browser via Browserify or similar bundlers.
* Carto can now load MML itself via the carto.MML object.
* The target API default of Mapnik moved from 2.3.0 to being always the
latest version (currently 3.0.6). Take that into account if you run a
Mapnik 2.x instance. See also the -a/--api switch.
* The name attribute for layers in the MML is deprecated and will be
removed in 1.0.0. Use id instead.

Bug reports (https://github.com/mapbox/carto/issues) and - especially -
contributions are always welcome.

Michael

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From hriday_nilesh at srmuniv.edu.in  Thu Feb 16 13:43:31 2017
From: hriday_nilesh at srmuniv.edu.in (Hriday N Sanghvi)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:13:31 +0530
Subject: [OSM-dev]  Submitting proposal for GSoC 2017
Message-ID: <CAH+UimX0ajfPEH6x-MSA=5=qgsVYRWC5F7hu2hSHM+2jDRfbAw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Lonvia,


I’m a student of Computer Science Engineering at SRM University, India (
http://www.srmuniv.ac.in/). I am interested in submitting my proposal for
GSOC 2017 for either one of the Open Street Map projects 1. Improve
Postcode handling or 2. OpenAddresses for Nominatim.


I have extensive experience working with PHP and MySQL databases on various
web based projects. I have undergone a PostgreSQL course on
https://www.lynda.com/PHP-5-tutorials/PostgreSQL-9-with-PHP-Essential-Training/73930-2.html
and http://www.tutorialspoint.com/postgresql/ and I’m quite comfortable
working with Github. I have some experience with Google Maps API while
working on a location based Click-and-Collect grocery shopping app. I plan
to continue with coding for OSM even after the GSOC project and also plan
to base my six months project in the eighth and final semester of my course
on OSM.

I understand that the list of accepted mentoring organizations will be
published on February 27 and potential student participants will discuss
application ideas with mentoring organizations from February 27 to March 20
and that student application period is open from March 20 to April 3, but I
wish to start early.


I have downloaded JOSM to edit my local area on the map, but I found ID
editor to be an easier option.

With regard to extraction of postcode data and exporting data to the
Nominatim database related to the project titled “Improve Postcode
Handling”, I have looked at API v 0.6 (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6 ), including the endpoints for
capabilities (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/capabilities ),
permissions (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/permissions ),
change sets (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changesets ), nodes
(http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/node/12345 ), and trace
metadata (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/gpx/12345/details ) in
which I was asked for Authentication.

I also went through the Overpass API (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API ), Overpass Turbo remote (
http://overpass-turbo.eu/ ) and Overpass Turbo Query form (
http://www.overpass-api.de/query_form.html ).

Though I was able to download limited data using the “Download Map data
from OSM server” tool in JOSM, I am not sure about the endpoint and query
to get post codes using API v 0.6 or Overpass API. I would really
appreciate any help on this. <http://overpass-api.de/api/>

I’m confident of producing productive work during the GSOC period. Before I
start working on the proposal for GSOC 2017, I would appreciate any
guidance you could provide.


Thank you.


Regards,

Hriday N Sanghvi
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From lonvia at denofr.de  Thu Feb 16 20:53:04 2017
From: lonvia at denofr.de (Sarah Hoffmann)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:53:04 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Submitting proposal for GSoC 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAH+UimX0ajfPEH6x-MSA=5=qgsVYRWC5F7hu2hSHM+2jDRfbAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH+UimX0ajfPEH6x-MSA=5=qgsVYRWC5F7hu2hSHM+2jDRfbAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170216205304.GA30636@denofr.de>

Hi Hriday,

thank you for your interest in the OSM GSoC.

There are a couple of things you can do to prepare for the postcode
project.

First of all you should familiarize yourself a bit with the OSM data
model in general (nodes, ways, relations, tags) and then find out
how postcode tagging works in particular. There are essetially two
ways how postcodes are mapped: as part of an address for a particular
house (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr) or as an
area (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code).
You can use Overpass (or Overpass Turbo) to find examples of the data.

Nominatim actually uses complete OSM data dumps and processes them
into a search database. So improving the search means improving the
import process. So, next you should try and set up your own instance
of Nominatim using the current development version from
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim (installation documentation
can be found in the doc/ directory) and a data extract from
http://download.geofabrik.de/. I recommend something from Europe
as there is already a fair coverage with postcodes.

Finally, it will also be helpful if you do a little bit of research
about postcodes in general to find out what different systems are
in use and where.

Hope that helps to get you started.

Kind regards

Sarah

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 07:13:31PM +0530, Hriday N Sanghvi wrote:
> Hello Lonvia,
> 
> 
> I’m a student of Computer Science Engineering at SRM University, India (
> http://www.srmuniv.ac.in/). I am interested in submitting my proposal for
> GSOC 2017 for either one of the Open Street Map projects 1. Improve
> Postcode handling or 2. OpenAddresses for Nominatim.
> 
> 
> I have extensive experience working with PHP and MySQL databases on various
> web based projects. I have undergone a PostgreSQL course on
> https://www.lynda.com/PHP-5-tutorials/PostgreSQL-9-with-PHP-Essential-Training/73930-2.html
> and http://www.tutorialspoint.com/postgresql/ and I’m quite comfortable
> working with Github. I have some experience with Google Maps API while
> working on a location based Click-and-Collect grocery shopping app. I plan
> to continue with coding for OSM even after the GSOC project and also plan
> to base my six months project in the eighth and final semester of my course
> on OSM.
> 
> I understand that the list of accepted mentoring organizations will be
> published on February 27 and potential student participants will discuss
> application ideas with mentoring organizations from February 27 to March 20
> and that student application period is open from March 20 to April 3, but I
> wish to start early.
> 
> 
> I have downloaded JOSM to edit my local area on the map, but I found ID
> editor to be an easier option.
> 
> With regard to extraction of postcode data and exporting data to the
> Nominatim database related to the project titled “Improve Postcode
> Handling”, I have looked at API v 0.6 (
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6 ), including the endpoints for
> capabilities (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/capabilities ),
> permissions (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/permissions ),
> change sets (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changesets ), nodes
> (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/node/12345 ), and trace
> metadata (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/gpx/12345/details ) in
> which I was asked for Authentication.
> 
> I also went through the Overpass API (
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API ), Overpass Turbo remote (
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/ ) and Overpass Turbo Query form (
> http://www.overpass-api.de/query_form.html ).
> 
> Though I was able to download limited data using the “Download Map data
> from OSM server” tool in JOSM, I am not sure about the endpoint and query
> to get post codes using API v 0.6 or Overpass API. I would really
> appreciate any help on this. <http://overpass-api.de/api/>
> 
> I’m confident of producing productive work during the GSOC period. Before I
> start working on the proposal for GSOC 2017, I would appreciate any
> guidance you could provide.
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hriday N Sanghvi

> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev



From hriday_nilesh at srmuniv.edu.in  Sat Feb 18 05:26:32 2017
From: hriday_nilesh at srmuniv.edu.in (Hriday N Sanghvi)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 10:56:32 +0530
Subject: [OSM-dev] Submitting proposal for GSoC 2017
In-Reply-To: <20170216205304.GA30636@denofr.de>
References: <CAH+UimX0ajfPEH6x-MSA=5=qgsVYRWC5F7hu2hSHM+2jDRfbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170216205304.GA30636@denofr.de>
Message-ID: <CAH+UimV1yXe3Stc6OAdo_5kVu4bEfOnbuKpj+rRqZdxxEMJj=A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Sarah,


Thank you for guiding me through the first steps in developing an
implementation plan for the project titled “Improve Postcode Handling”.


I have gone through http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Elements to better
understand the OSM data model. I now have a fair idea of what nodes, ways,
relations, tags are and how they are related to each other. I also went
through http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code and
understand how postcodes are either mapped to an address or to an area
within a geo fence. I also built and ran a few addr:postcode and
 boundary:postal_code queries using the Overpass Turbo Wizard (
https://overpass-turbo.eu/ )for examples of the data output on the map.


I went through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_code to get a general
idea about postcode systems. The characters used in postal codes are the
Arabic numerals "0" to "9", letters of the ISO basic Latin alphabet, spaces
and hyphens. India has a 6 character numeric postcode, but many countries
have alphanumeric postcodes with varying number of characters.


I have experience in installing Wordpress, WooCommerce and other Ecommerce
softwares on AWS. Hence, I plan to install Nominatim on AWS Server - free
tier (https://aws.amazon.com/free/ ). However, from what I’ve read, it
looks like 1 GB of RAM provided under free tier may not be sufficient. I
would appreciate if you could suggest alternative low cost/free servers. In
addition to
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/blob/master/docs/install-on-ubuntu-16.md
and
https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/blob/master/docs/Import_and_update.md
, I will also refer to the following installation guides:
https://www.snip2code.com/Snippet/248983/Instructions-for-installing-an-OpenStree
, https://andrewwhitby.com/2014/12/18/nominatim-on-ec2/ ,
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/Installation .

Thank you.

Regards,

Hriday.

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 2:23 AM, Sarah Hoffmann <lonvia at denofr.de> wrote:

> Hi Hriday,
>
> thank you for your interest in the OSM GSoC.
>
> There are a couple of things you can do to prepare for the postcode
> project.
>
> First of all you should familiarize yourself a bit with the OSM data
> model in general (nodes, ways, relations, tags) and then find out
> how postcode tagging works in particular. There are essetially two
> ways how postcodes are mapped: as part of an address for a particular
> house (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr) or as an
> area (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code).
> You can use Overpass (or Overpass Turbo) to find examples of the data.
>
> Nominatim actually uses complete OSM data dumps and processes them
> into a search database. So improving the search means improving the
> import process. So, next you should try and set up your own instance
> of Nominatim using the current development version from
> https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim (installation documentation
> can be found in the doc/ directory) and a data extract from
> http://download.geofabrik.de/. I recommend something from Europe
> as there is already a fair coverage with postcodes.
>
> Finally, it will also be helpful if you do a little bit of research
> about postcodes in general to find out what different systems are
> in use and where.
>
> Hope that helps to get you started.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Sarah
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 07:13:31PM +0530, Hriday N Sanghvi wrote:
> > Hello Lonvia,
> >
> >
> > I’m a student of Computer Science Engineering at SRM University, India (
> > http://www.srmuniv.ac.in/). I am interested in submitting my proposal
> for
> > GSOC 2017 for either one of the Open Street Map projects 1. Improve
> > Postcode handling or 2. OpenAddresses for Nominatim.
> >
> >
> > I have extensive experience working with PHP and MySQL databases on
> various
> > web based projects. I have undergone a PostgreSQL course on
> > https://www.lynda.com/PHP-5-tutorials/PostgreSQL-9-with-
> PHP-Essential-Training/73930-2.html
> > and http://www.tutorialspoint.com/postgresql/ and I’m quite comfortable
> > working with Github. I have some experience with Google Maps API while
> > working on a location based Click-and-Collect grocery shopping app. I
> plan
> > to continue with coding for OSM even after the GSOC project and also plan
> > to base my six months project in the eighth and final semester of my
> course
> > on OSM.
> >
> > I understand that the list of accepted mentoring organizations will be
> > published on February 27 and potential student participants will discuss
> > application ideas with mentoring organizations from February 27 to March
> 20
> > and that student application period is open from March 20 to April 3,
> but I
> > wish to start early.
> >
> >
> > I have downloaded JOSM to edit my local area on the map, but I found ID
> > editor to be an easier option.
> >
> > With regard to extraction of postcode data and exporting data to the
> > Nominatim database related to the project titled “Improve Postcode
> > Handling”, I have looked at API v 0.6 (
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6 ), including the endpoints
> for
> > capabilities (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/capabilities ),
> > permissions (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/permissions ),
> > change sets (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changesets ),
> nodes
> > (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/node/12345 ), and trace
> > metadata (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/gpx/12345/details
> ) in
> > which I was asked for Authentication.
> >
> > I also went through the Overpass API (
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API ), Overpass Turbo
> remote (
> > http://overpass-turbo.eu/ ) and Overpass Turbo Query form (
> > http://www.overpass-api.de/query_form.html ).
> >
> > Though I was able to download limited data using the “Download Map data
> > from OSM server” tool in JOSM, I am not sure about the endpoint and query
> > to get post codes using API v 0.6 or Overpass API. I would really
> > appreciate any help on this. <http://overpass-api.de/api/>
> >
> > I’m confident of producing productive work during the GSOC period.
> Before I
> > start working on the proposal for GSOC 2017, I would appreciate any
> > guidance you could provide.
> >
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hriday N Sanghvi
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > dev mailing list
> > dev at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
>
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From lonvia at denofr.de  Sat Feb 18 11:58:20 2017
From: lonvia at denofr.de (Sarah Hoffmann)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 11:58:20 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Submitting proposal for GSoC 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAH+UimV1yXe3Stc6OAdo_5kVu4bEfOnbuKpj+rRqZdxxEMJj=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH+UimX0ajfPEH6x-MSA=5=qgsVYRWC5F7hu2hSHM+2jDRfbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170216205304.GA30636@denofr.de>
 <CAH+UimV1yXe3Stc6OAdo_5kVu4bEfOnbuKpj+rRqZdxxEMJj=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170218115820.GA402@denofr.de>

Hi Hriday,

the minimum memory requirement was 2GB RAM last time I checked. You won't
need more than that when working with smaller extracts. If anyhow
possible I recommend to try the installation on your local machine.
There are Vagrant script included, if you prefer to run it on a
virtual machine.

Kind regards

Sarah


On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 10:56:32AM +0530, Hriday N Sanghvi wrote:
> Hello Sarah,
> 
> 
> Thank you for guiding me through the first steps in developing an
> implementation plan for the project titled “Improve Postcode Handling”.
> 
> 
> I have gone through http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Elements to better
> understand the OSM data model. I now have a fair idea of what nodes, ways,
> relations, tags are and how they are related to each other. I also went
> through http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr and
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code and
> understand how postcodes are either mapped to an address or to an area
> within a geo fence. I also built and ran a few addr:postcode and
>  boundary:postal_code queries using the Overpass Turbo Wizard (
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/ )for examples of the data output on the map.
> 
> 
> I went through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_code to get a general
> idea about postcode systems. The characters used in postal codes are the
> Arabic numerals "0" to "9", letters of the ISO basic Latin alphabet, spaces
> and hyphens. India has a 6 character numeric postcode, but many countries
> have alphanumeric postcodes with varying number of characters.
> 
> 
> I have experience in installing Wordpress, WooCommerce and other Ecommerce
> softwares on AWS. Hence, I plan to install Nominatim on AWS Server - free
> tier (https://aws.amazon.com/free/ ). However, from what I’ve read, it
> looks like 1 GB of RAM provided under free tier may not be sufficient. I
> would appreciate if you could suggest alternative low cost/free servers. In
> addition to
> https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/blob/master/docs/install-on-ubuntu-16.md
> and
> https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/blob/master/docs/Import_and_update.md
> , I will also refer to the following installation guides:
> https://www.snip2code.com/Snippet/248983/Instructions-for-installing-an-OpenStree
> , https://andrewwhitby.com/2014/12/18/nominatim-on-ec2/ ,
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/Installation .
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hriday.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 2:23 AM, Sarah Hoffmann <lonvia at denofr.de> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Hriday,
> >
> > thank you for your interest in the OSM GSoC.
> >
> > There are a couple of things you can do to prepare for the postcode
> > project.
> >
> > First of all you should familiarize yourself a bit with the OSM data
> > model in general (nodes, ways, relations, tags) and then find out
> > how postcode tagging works in particular. There are essetially two
> > ways how postcodes are mapped: as part of an address for a particular
> > house (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr) or as an
> > area (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code).
> > You can use Overpass (or Overpass Turbo) to find examples of the data.
> >
> > Nominatim actually uses complete OSM data dumps and processes them
> > into a search database. So improving the search means improving the
> > import process. So, next you should try and set up your own instance
> > of Nominatim using the current development version from
> > https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim (installation documentation
> > can be found in the doc/ directory) and a data extract from
> > http://download.geofabrik.de/. I recommend something from Europe
> > as there is already a fair coverage with postcodes.
> >
> > Finally, it will also be helpful if you do a little bit of research
> > about postcodes in general to find out what different systems are
> > in use and where.
> >
> > Hope that helps to get you started.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 07:13:31PM +0530, Hriday N Sanghvi wrote:
> > > Hello Lonvia,
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m a student of Computer Science Engineering at SRM University, India (
> > > http://www.srmuniv.ac.in/). I am interested in submitting my proposal
> > for
> > > GSOC 2017 for either one of the Open Street Map projects 1. Improve
> > > Postcode handling or 2. OpenAddresses for Nominatim.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have extensive experience working with PHP and MySQL databases on
> > various
> > > web based projects. I have undergone a PostgreSQL course on
> > > https://www.lynda.com/PHP-5-tutorials/PostgreSQL-9-with-
> > PHP-Essential-Training/73930-2.html
> > > and http://www.tutorialspoint.com/postgresql/ and I’m quite comfortable
> > > working with Github. I have some experience with Google Maps API while
> > > working on a location based Click-and-Collect grocery shopping app. I
> > plan
> > > to continue with coding for OSM even after the GSOC project and also plan
> > > to base my six months project in the eighth and final semester of my
> > course
> > > on OSM.
> > >
> > > I understand that the list of accepted mentoring organizations will be
> > > published on February 27 and potential student participants will discuss
> > > application ideas with mentoring organizations from February 27 to March
> > 20
> > > and that student application period is open from March 20 to April 3,
> > but I
> > > wish to start early.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have downloaded JOSM to edit my local area on the map, but I found ID
> > > editor to be an easier option.
> > >
> > > With regard to extraction of postcode data and exporting data to the
> > > Nominatim database related to the project titled “Improve Postcode
> > > Handling”, I have looked at API v 0.6 (
> > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6 ), including the endpoints
> > for
> > > capabilities (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/capabilities ),
> > > permissions (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/permissions ),
> > > change sets (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changesets ),
> > nodes
> > > (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/node/12345 ), and trace
> > > metadata (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/gpx/12345/details
> > ) in
> > > which I was asked for Authentication.
> > >
> > > I also went through the Overpass API (
> > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API ), Overpass Turbo
> > remote (
> > > http://overpass-turbo.eu/ ) and Overpass Turbo Query form (
> > > http://www.overpass-api.de/query_form.html ).
> > >
> > > Though I was able to download limited data using the “Download Map data
> > > from OSM server” tool in JOSM, I am not sure about the endpoint and query
> > > to get post codes using API v 0.6 or Overpass API. I would really
> > > appreciate any help on this. <http://overpass-api.de/api/>
> > >
> > > I’m confident of producing productive work during the GSOC period.
> > Before I
> > > start working on the proposal for GSOC 2017, I would appreciate any
> > > guidance you could provide.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hriday N Sanghvi
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dev mailing list
> > > dev at openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
> >
> >


From frederik at remote.org  Mon Feb 20 00:18:00 2017
From: frederik at remote.org (Frederik Ramm)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 01:18:00 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] full history files on Geofabrik server
Message-ID: <fbb66595-a133-659d-77f9-f8eb2ef07f1b@remote.org>

Hi,

   "full history" files are kind of a niche interest, but they can be
useful to analyze some things like "how many different people have added
a certain tag", or "how has an object evolved over time", and so on.
They can also be used to reconstruct the complete data set for any given
timestamp in the past (minus, of course, redactions).

I'm happy to announce that the Geofabrik download server now has full
history files for all regions served. These files (called ".osh.pbf")
can for example be processed with the Osmium library and the osmium
command line tool. If you want to run analyses on them without C++
coding, Osmium can convert them to a text-based format ("OPL") that is
then accessible for grep et al.

The full history files will be updated weekly.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


From penorman at mac.com  Mon Feb 20 01:04:31 2017
From: penorman at mac.com (Paul Norman)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 17:04:31 -0800
Subject: [OSM-dev] GSoC API mentoring help needed
Message-ID: <ccae7828-d1a1-dbb6-e7c9-382f2087d54c@mac.com>

Much to my surprise, I have 2-4 students issued in my API-related GSoC 
proposals. This is more than one person or even two people can mentor, 
so I'm asking for help. The cgimap-ruby, cgimap read-only support, 
cgimap write support, and make the website use the API

Some of the proposals involve cgimap, and I'm probably the best suited 
to mentor those because I'm one of the three significant cgimap 
contributors. Instead, there's two proposals well suited to someone else.

1. cgimap-ruby

I don't yet have a student interested in this, but I'd like to see if 
one of the ones who has contacted me is. This could use a mentor who has 
dealt with ruby gems before, which I haven't. I have a feeling this part 
of the work isn't enough for a full project, so it could pull in 
something from a different API-related proposal.

2. website from API

This is a project to change parts of the website to call the API instead 
of the database for object information. Good candidate pages would be 
the object browse ones (/node/<id>, etc). There are two different 
technical approaches to this, and depending on which route a student 
takes, the mentor might need different skills. The first of these is to 
do the processing of API results on the server and return HTML to the 
client, like http://osm.mapki.com/history/ does. The second is to do the 
processing of API results on the client with Javascript, like 
http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/ does. For the first, the 
student would be reproducing existing HTML output so the mentor would 
need knowledge of ruby and API calls. For the second, client-side 
javascript would be needed, but less ruby.

If you're interested and available to help mentor, please contact me 
off-list.




From joost.schouppe at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 08:01:39 2017
From: joost.schouppe at gmail.com (joost schouppe)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 09:01:39 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] full history files on Geofabrik server
In-Reply-To: <fbb66595-a133-659d-77f9-f8eb2ef07f1b@remote.org>
References: <fbb66595-a133-659d-77f9-f8eb2ef07f1b@remote.org>
Message-ID: <CAO2_g7LGu85FVszWi=JB8up3gp6Cs2-Fs0kE_sG4SDcKe6tGqw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for that!

I suppose they're slightly buffered as usual, so the dataset includes the
entire region and a little extra. So if anyone wants to make statistics
with them, you'll still need something like the OSM-history-splitter (or a
spatial query) to limit results to your area of interest.

Joost
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From gravitystorm at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 08:19:38 2017
From: gravitystorm at gmail.com (Andy Allan)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 08:19:38 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] GSoC API mentoring help needed
In-Reply-To: <ccae7828-d1a1-dbb6-e7c9-382f2087d54c@mac.com>
References: <ccae7828-d1a1-dbb6-e7c9-382f2087d54c@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAJmUSViw2gnPiSyg6BZuk2RwOVGJ3EOATtoA0rAf2njPNZkx_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 February 2017 at 01:04, Paul Norman <penorman at mac.com> wrote:

> 1. cgimap-ruby
>
> I don't yet have a student interested in this, but I'd like to see if one of
> the ones who has contacted me is. This could use a mentor who has dealt with
> ruby gems before, which I haven't. I have a feeling this part of the work
> isn't enough for a full project, so it could pull in something from a
> different API-related proposal.

I think this would be more than enough for a full project. I have
experience with the ruby side of things, but not the C++ side, so I
don't think I would be a good mentor. But the integration of
cgimap-ruby into the rails code would be very valuable, but perhaps
hard to get right. For example, while the basic integration would be
to get cgimap-ruby to create the document and let rails send that to
the client, the more advanced solution is to allow cgimap-ruby to
stream the response to the socket directly, without rails buffering
the whole thing.

> 2. website from API
>
> This is a project to change parts of the website to call the API instead of
> the database for object information. Good candidate pages would be the
> object browse ones (/node/<id>, etc). There are two different technical
> approaches to this, and depending on which route a student takes, the mentor
> might need different skills. The first of these is to do the processing of
> API results on the server and return HTML to the client, like
> http://osm.mapki.com/history/ does. The second is to do the processing of
> API results on the client with Javascript, like
> http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/ does. For the first, the student
> would be reproducing existing HTML output so the mentor would need knowledge
> of ruby and API calls. For the second, client-side javascript would be
> needed, but less ruby.

I can see the purpose of this, but I've never seen it as being as high
a priority as other developers do. For example, I can see why the
browse pages shouldn't have access to the data in a manner that's not
exposed in the API, but that to me suggests improving the API, rather
than forcing a lowest-common-denominator approach of forcing the
browse pages to use the API.

I would avoid the pure-javascript approach, as it's just rewriting for
the sake of rewriting. My suggestion would be to just change the
existing browse pages code slightly - the controllers should make
(internal) calls to the API endpoints, to replace their direct db
access. Even better if those internal API calls are processed by
cgimap-ruby!

Thanks,
Andy


From jochen at remote.org  Mon Feb 20 08:32:00 2017
From: jochen at remote.org (Jochen Topf)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 09:32:00 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] full history files on Geofabrik server
In-Reply-To: <CAO2_g7LGu85FVszWi=JB8up3gp6Cs2-Fs0kE_sG4SDcKe6tGqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbb66595-a133-659d-77f9-f8eb2ef07f1b@remote.org>
 <CAO2_g7LGu85FVszWi=JB8up3gp6Cs2-Fs0kE_sG4SDcKe6tGqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170220083200.wobjnq52srwqmmd4@eldorado.topf.org>

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 09:01:39AM +0100, joost schouppe wrote:
> I suppose they're slightly buffered as usual, so the dataset includes the
> entire region and a little extra. So if anyone wants to make statistics
> with them, you'll still need something like the OSM-history-splitter (or a
> spatial query) to limit results to your area of interest.

Don't use the outdated osm-history-splitter, use "osmium extract" [1]
from the osmium command line tool [2]. It is much faster and can do
extracts based on very detailed boundary polygons that aren't much
slower than doing them on an simplified polygons.

[1] http://docs.osmcode.org/osmium/latest/osmium-extract.html
[2] http://osmcode.org/osmium-tool/

Jochen
-- 
Jochen Topf  jochen at remote.org  https://www.jochentopf.com/  +49-351-31778688


From sebastian.kuerten at fu-berlin.de  Tue Feb 21 08:56:54 2017
From: sebastian.kuerten at fu-berlin.de (Sebastian =?ISO-8859-1?B?S/xydGVu?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 09:56:54 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] full history files on Geofabrik server
In-Reply-To: <fbb66595-a133-659d-77f9-f8eb2ef07f1b@remote.org>
References: <fbb66595-a133-659d-77f9-f8eb2ef07f1b@remote.org>
Message-ID: <20170221095654.32a89d22@pluto>

Hi,

I took this as an opportunity to check osm4j's support for history
files. From what I understand the main difference to ordinary data files
is that elements with the same id appear multiple times and they carry
the 'visible' attribute. During testing I noted that I would not find
any nodes with the visibility set to false, which appears strange to
me? Can this be true, or is there likely something wrong with either
the data or the code that processes it?

I've set up a minimal example that counts and sums up the visibility of
each entity type in Bremen:

https://github.com/topobyte/osm4j-examples/blob/master/src/main/java/de/topobyte/osm4j/examples/history/HistoryVisibilityStats.java

Here's the output:

    nodes: 2389608 visible, 0 invisible
    ways: 729714 visible, 27604 invisible
    relations: 67500 visible, 1632 invisible

The data file used is this:
http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/germany/bremen.osh.pbf

Thank you for any hints,
Sebastian

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 01:18:00 +0100
Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>    "full history" files are kind of a niche interest, but they can be
> useful to analyze some things like "how many different people have
> added a certain tag", or "how has an object evolved over time", and
> so on. They can also be used to reconstruct the complete data set for
> any given timestamp in the past (minus, of course, redactions).
> 
> I'm happy to announce that the Geofabrik download server now has full
> history files for all regions served. These files (called ".osh.pbf")
> can for example be processed with the Osmium library and the osmium
> command line tool. If you want to run analyses on them without C++
> coding, Osmium can convert them to a text-based format ("OPL") that is
> then accessible for grep et al.
> 
> The full history files will be updated weekly.
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 


From penorman at mac.com  Tue Feb 21 09:06:28 2017
From: penorman at mac.com (Paul Norman)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 01:06:28 -0800
Subject: [OSM-dev] GSoC API mentoring help needed
In-Reply-To: <CAJmUSViw2gnPiSyg6BZuk2RwOVGJ3EOATtoA0rAf2njPNZkx_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ccae7828-d1a1-dbb6-e7c9-382f2087d54c@mac.com>
 <CAJmUSViw2gnPiSyg6BZuk2RwOVGJ3EOATtoA0rAf2njPNZkx_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71b04f35-a01e-f089-d786-1384bce9da09@mac.com>

On 2/20/2017 12:19 AM, Andy Allan wrote:
> I can see the purpose of this, but I've never seen it as being as high
> a priority as other developers do.

For me the concerns all stem from code duplication, principally leading 
to more optimization work on one path, so cgimap is much faster than 
browse pages. You can see a good example of this with relation history 
pages that time out while the cgimap powered API call is much faster.

I do consider this less important than my other API proposals, but I 
have students interested in it

> For example, I can see why the
> browse pages shouldn't have access to the data in a manner that's not
> exposed in the API, but that to me suggests improving the API, rather
> than forcing a lowest-common-denominator approach of forcing the
> browse pages to use the API.

I'm not advocating reducing the functionality of the browse pages. Part 
of the work with this is identifying what is lacking in the API. I hope 
to propose a new call to start the discussion before GSoC.

> I would avoid the pure-javascript approach, as it's just rewriting for
> the sake of rewriting. My suggestion would be to just change the
> existing browse pages code slightly - the controllers should make
> (internal) calls to the API endpoints, to replace their direct db
> access. Even better if those internal API calls are processed by
> cgimap-ruby!

As I see it, either way accomplishes the goal of having the requests for 
object information go through a common path and come with tradeoffs.




From tyr.asd at gmail.com  Tue Feb 21 09:52:18 2017
From: tyr.asd at gmail.com (Martin Raifer)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 10:52:18 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] full history files on Geofabrik server
In-Reply-To: <20170221095654.32a89d22@pluto>
References: <fbb66595-a133-659d-77f9-f8eb2ef07f1b@remote.org>
 <20170221095654.32a89d22@pluto>
Message-ID: <CAB0Sxww+uvAFvSvERM7bdDbVoD=M=OLu2Nkb6eTdfj1Lw3O4Wg@mail.gmail.com>

It works for me (using tiny-osmpbf [0]): I see 2228689 "visible" and
160919 deleted node versions. Maybe osm4j doesn't read the visible
flag from the DenseInfo[1] data structure in the pbf file?

Best,
Martin

[0] https://www.npmjs.com/package/tiny-osmpbf
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PBF_Format#Nodes

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Sebastian Kürten
<sebastian.kuerten at fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I took this as an opportunity to check osm4j's support for history
> files. From what I understand the main difference to ordinary data files
> is that elements with the same id appear multiple times and they carry
> the 'visible' attribute. During testing I noted that I would not find
> any nodes with the visibility set to false, which appears strange to
> me? Can this be true, or is there likely something wrong with either
> the data or the code that processes it?
>
> I've set up a minimal example that counts and sums up the visibility of
> each entity type in Bremen:
>
> https://github.com/topobyte/osm4j-examples/blob/master/src/main/java/de/topobyte/osm4j/examples/history/HistoryVisibilityStats.java
>
> Here's the output:
>
>     nodes: 2389608 visible, 0 invisible
>     ways: 729714 visible, 27604 invisible
>     relations: 67500 visible, 1632 invisible
>
> The data file used is this:
> http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/germany/bremen.osh.pbf
>
> Thank you for any hints,
> Sebastian
>
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 01:18:00 +0100
> Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>    "full history" files are kind of a niche interest, but they can be
>> useful to analyze some things like "how many different people have
>> added a certain tag", or "how has an object evolved over time", and
>> so on. They can also be used to reconstruct the complete data set for
>> any given timestamp in the past (minus, of course, redactions).
>>
>> I'm happy to announce that the Geofabrik download server now has full
>> history files for all regions served. These files (called ".osh.pbf")
>> can for example be processed with the Osmium library and the osmium
>> command line tool. If you want to run analyses on them without C++
>> coding, Osmium can convert them to a text-based format ("OPL") that is
>> then accessible for grep et al.
>>
>> The full history files will be updated weekly.
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev


From sebastian.kuerten at fu-berlin.de  Tue Feb 21 11:09:09 2017
From: sebastian.kuerten at fu-berlin.de (Sebastian =?ISO-8859-1?B?S/xydGVu?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:09:09 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] full history files on Geofabrik server
In-Reply-To: <CAB0Sxww+uvAFvSvERM7bdDbVoD=M=OLu2Nkb6eTdfj1Lw3O4Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbb66595-a133-659d-77f9-f8eb2ef07f1b@remote.org>
 <20170221095654.32a89d22@pluto>
 <CAB0Sxww+uvAFvSvERM7bdDbVoD=M=OLu2Nkb6eTdfj1Lw3O4Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170221120909.7abfba32@pluto>

Good guess, indeed that was the case.

Thanks,
Sebastian

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 10:52:18 +0100
Martin Raifer <tyr.asd at gmail.com> wrote:

> It works for me (using tiny-osmpbf [0]): I see 2228689 "visible" and
> 160919 deleted node versions. Maybe osm4j doesn't read the visible
> flag from the DenseInfo[1] data structure in the pbf file?
> 
> Best,
> Martin
> 
> [0] https://www.npmjs.com/package/tiny-osmpbf
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PBF_Format#Nodes
> 
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Sebastian Kürten
> <sebastian.kuerten at fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I took this as an opportunity to check osm4j's support for history
> > files. From what I understand the main difference to ordinary data
> > files is that elements with the same id appear multiple times and
> > they carry the 'visible' attribute. During testing I noted that I
> > would not find any nodes with the visibility set to false, which
> > appears strange to me? Can this be true, or is there likely
> > something wrong with either the data or the code that processes it?
> >
> > I've set up a minimal example that counts and sums up the
> > visibility of each entity type in Bremen:
> >
> > https://github.com/topobyte/osm4j-examples/blob/master/src/main/java/de/topobyte/osm4j/examples/history/HistoryVisibilityStats.java
> >
> > Here's the output:
> >
> >     nodes: 2389608 visible, 0 invisible
> >     ways: 729714 visible, 27604 invisible
> >     relations: 67500 visible, 1632 invisible
> >
> > The data file used is this:
> > http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/germany/bremen.osh.pbf
> >
> > Thank you for any hints,
> > Sebastian
> >
> > On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 01:18:00 +0100
> > Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>    "full history" files are kind of a niche interest, but they can
> >> be useful to analyze some things like "how many different people
> >> have added a certain tag", or "how has an object evolved over
> >> time", and so on. They can also be used to reconstruct the
> >> complete data set for any given timestamp in the past (minus, of
> >> course, redactions).
> >>
> >> I'm happy to announce that the Geofabrik download server now has
> >> full history files for all regions served. These files (called
> >> ".osh.pbf") can for example be processed with the Osmium library
> >> and the osmium command line tool. If you want to run analyses on
> >> them without C++ coding, Osmium can convert them to a text-based
> >> format ("OPL") that is then accessible for grep et al.
> >>
> >> The full history files will be updated weekly.
> >>
> >> Bye
> >> Frederik
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dev mailing list
> > dev at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev


From lonvia at denofr.de  Tue Feb 21 21:02:32 2017
From: lonvia at denofr.de (Sarah Hoffmann)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 21:02:32 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Submitting proposal for GSoC 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAH+UimX-dOBZ__skV+M7m-O=t-EK1DebDz9GDS_Yk9F48VfBcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH+UimX0ajfPEH6x-MSA=5=qgsVYRWC5F7hu2hSHM+2jDRfbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170216205304.GA30636@denofr.de>
 <CAH+UimV1yXe3Stc6OAdo_5kVu4bEfOnbuKpj+rRqZdxxEMJj=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170218115820.GA402@denofr.de>
 <CAH+UimX-dOBZ__skV+M7m-O=t-EK1DebDz9GDS_Yk9F48VfBcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170221210232.GA11882@denofr.de>

Hi,

a few thinkgs you can check:

- has the Apache configuration in /etc/apache2/conf-available/nominatim.conf
  been created correctly and does it point to the correct directory
  (website in your build directory)?
- try restarting apache
- check that user 'www-data' can access the website directory

Kind regards

Sarah

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:22:34PM +0530, Hriday N Sanghvi wrote:
> Hello Sarah,
> 
> 
> Thank you for recommending a solution.
> 
> As suggested, I have successfully installed:
> 
> 1.       Vagrant (https://releases.hashicorp.com/vagrant/1.9.1/vagrant_1.9.
> 1.msi)
> 
> 2.       Oracle Virtual Box (http://download.virtualbox.
> org/virtualbox/5.1.14/VirtualBox-5.1.14-112924-Win.exe).
> 
> 3.       Official Ubuntu 16.04 LTS (Xenial Xerus) Daily Build (
> https://atlas.hashicorp.com/ubuntu)
> 
> 4.       Nominatim with dependencies using https://github.com/twain47/
> Nominatim/blob/master/docs/install-on-ubuntu-16.md
> 
> 5.       Monaco data extract (http://download.geofabrik.de/
> europe/monaco-latest.osm.pbf) using https://github.com/twain47/
> Nominatim/blob/master/docs/Import_and_update.md and
> https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/blob/master/VAGRANT.md
> 
> [image: Inline image 1]
> 
> On accessing localhost:8089, I get the following page:
> 
> [image: Inline image 2]
> 
> However, on accessing localhost:8089/nominatim, I get an error as shown
> below:
> 
> [image: Inline image 3]
> 
> I tried solving the issue by referring to https://github.com/twain47/
> Nominatim/issues/203, but the problem still persists. I would appreciate if
> you could suggest possible solutions. In the mean time, I’m browsing
> through other similar issues on the Nominatim Github repository pages for
> workarounds.
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hriday
> 
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Sarah Hoffmann <lonvia at denofr.de> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Hriday,
> >
> > the minimum memory requirement was 2GB RAM last time I checked. You won't
> > need more than that when working with smaller extracts. If anyhow
> > possible I recommend to try the installation on your local machine.
> > There are Vagrant script included, if you prefer to run it on a
> > virtual machine.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 10:56:32AM +0530, Hriday N Sanghvi wrote:
> > > Hello Sarah,
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for guiding me through the first steps in developing an
> > > implementation plan for the project titled “Improve Postcode Handling”.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have gone through http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Elements to
> > better
> > > understand the OSM data model. I now have a fair idea of what nodes,
> > ways,
> > > relations, tags are and how they are related to each other. I also went
> > > through http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr and
> > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code and
> > > understand how postcodes are either mapped to an address or to an area
> > > within a geo fence. I also built and ran a few addr:postcode and
> > >  boundary:postal_code queries using the Overpass Turbo Wizard (
> > > https://overpass-turbo.eu/ )for examples of the data output on the map.
> > >
> > >
> > > I went through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_code to get a
> > general
> > > idea about postcode systems. The characters used in postal codes are the
> > > Arabic numerals "0" to "9", letters of the ISO basic Latin alphabet,
> > spaces
> > > and hyphens. India has a 6 character numeric postcode, but many countries
> > > have alphanumeric postcodes with varying number of characters.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have experience in installing Wordpress, WooCommerce and other
> > Ecommerce
> > > softwares on AWS. Hence, I plan to install Nominatim on AWS Server - free
> > > tier (https://aws.amazon.com/free/ ). However, from what I’ve read, it
> > > looks like 1 GB of RAM provided under free tier may not be sufficient. I
> > > would appreciate if you could suggest alternative low cost/free servers.
> > In
> > > addition to
> > > https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/blob/master/docs/
> > install-on-ubuntu-16.md
> > > and
> > > https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/blob/master/docs/
> > Import_and_update.md
> > > , I will also refer to the following installation guides:
> > > https://www.snip2code.com/Snippet/248983/Instructions-
> > for-installing-an-OpenStree
> > > , https://andrewwhitby.com/2014/12/18/nominatim-on-ec2/ ,
> > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/Installation .
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hriday.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 2:23 AM, Sarah Hoffmann <lonvia at denofr.de>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Hriday,
> > > >
> > > > thank you for your interest in the OSM GSoC.
> > > >
> > > > There are a couple of things you can do to prepare for the postcode
> > > > project.
> > > >
> > > > First of all you should familiarize yourself a bit with the OSM data
> > > > model in general (nodes, ways, relations, tags) and then find out
> > > > how postcode tagging works in particular. There are essetially two
> > > > ways how postcodes are mapped: as part of an address for a particular
> > > > house (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr) or as an
> > > > area (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_
> > code).
> > > > You can use Overpass (or Overpass Turbo) to find examples of the data.
> > > >
> > > > Nominatim actually uses complete OSM data dumps and processes them
> > > > into a search database. So improving the search means improving the
> > > > import process. So, next you should try and set up your own instance
> > > > of Nominatim using the current development version from
> > > > https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim (installation documentation
> > > > can be found in the doc/ directory) and a data extract from
> > > > http://download.geofabrik.de/. I recommend something from Europe
> > > > as there is already a fair coverage with postcodes.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, it will also be helpful if you do a little bit of research
> > > > about postcodes in general to find out what different systems are
> > > > in use and where.
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helps to get you started.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > Sarah
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 07:13:31PM +0530, Hriday N Sanghvi wrote:
> > > > > Hello Lonvia,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m a student of Computer Science Engineering at SRM University,
> > India (
> > > > > http://www.srmuniv.ac.in/). I am interested in submitting my
> > proposal
> > > > for
> > > > > GSOC 2017 for either one of the Open Street Map projects 1. Improve
> > > > > Postcode handling or 2. OpenAddresses for Nominatim.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have extensive experience working with PHP and MySQL databases on
> > > > various
> > > > > web based projects. I have undergone a PostgreSQL course on
> > > > > https://www.lynda.com/PHP-5-tutorials/PostgreSQL-9-with-
> > > > PHP-Essential-Training/73930-2.html
> > > > > and http://www.tutorialspoint.com/postgresql/ and I’m quite
> > comfortable
> > > > > working with Github. I have some experience with Google Maps API
> > while
> > > > > working on a location based Click-and-Collect grocery shopping app. I
> > > > plan
> > > > > to continue with coding for OSM even after the GSOC project and also
> > plan
> > > > > to base my six months project in the eighth and final semester of my
> > > > course
> > > > > on OSM.
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand that the list of accepted mentoring organizations will
> > be
> > > > > published on February 27 and potential student participants will
> > discuss
> > > > > application ideas with mentoring organizations from February 27 to
> > March
> > > > 20
> > > > > and that student application period is open from March 20 to April 3,
> > > > but I
> > > > > wish to start early.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have downloaded JOSM to edit my local area on the map, but I found
> > ID
> > > > > editor to be an easier option.
> > > > >
> > > > > With regard to extraction of postcode data and exporting data to the
> > > > > Nominatim database related to the project titled “Improve Postcode
> > > > > Handling”, I have looked at API v 0.6 (
> > > > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6 ), including the
> > endpoints
> > > > for
> > > > > capabilities (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/capabilities ),
> > > > > permissions (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/permissions
> > ),
> > > > > change sets (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changesets
> > ),
> > > > nodes
> > > > > (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/node/12345 ), and trace
> > > > > metadata (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/gpx/
> > 12345/details
> > > > ) in
> > > > > which I was asked for Authentication.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also went through the Overpass API (
> > > > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API ), Overpass Turbo
> > > > remote (
> > > > > http://overpass-turbo.eu/ ) and Overpass Turbo Query form (
> > > > > http://www.overpass-api.de/query_form.html ).
> > > > >
> > > > > Though I was able to download limited data using the “Download Map
> > data
> > > > > from OSM server” tool in JOSM, I am not sure about the endpoint and
> > query
> > > > > to get post codes using API v 0.6 or Overpass API. I would really
> > > > > appreciate any help on this. <http://overpass-api.de/api/>
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m confident of producing productive work during the GSOC period.
> > > > Before I
> > > > > start working on the proposal for GSOC 2017, I would appreciate any
> > > > > guidance you could provide.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Hriday N Sanghvi
> > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > dev mailing list
> > > > > dev at openstreetmap.org
> > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
> > > >
> > > >
> >






From toni at sigte.udg.edu  Thu Feb 23 08:03:38 2017
From: toni at sigte.udg.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?toni_hern=c3=a1ndez?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 09:03:38 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Detect editions in an area
Message-ID: <9f98b353-d197-aeb8-1e47-3184b9e58099@sigte.udg.edu>

Hello guys,

The town hall where I live has decided to upload all the information 
they have referring to streets, streets numbers and buildings. Good news!!

Once they have uploaded all this information, they need to keep this 
information up-to-date. That's why they want some tool that allows them 
to detect any new edition in the municipality.

In your expert opinion, what is the best tool/approach to achieve that?

thanks all.


-- 
*Toni Hernández Vallès*
Servei de Sistemes d'Informació Geogràfica i Teledetecció
-
Universitat de Girona
*SIGTE*
-
Pl. Ferrater Mora 1
17071 Girona
Tel +34 972 418 039 (7026 intern)
toni at sigte.udg.edu <mailto:toni.hernandez at udg.edu>

http://www.sigte.udg.edu
Twitter http://twitter.com/SIGTE_UDG

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From pella.samu at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 10:25:25 2017
From: pella.samu at gmail.com (Imre Samu)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 11:25:25 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Detect editions in an area
In-Reply-To: <9f98b353-d197-aeb8-1e47-3184b9e58099@sigte.udg.edu>
References: <9f98b353-d197-aeb8-1e47-3184b9e58099@sigte.udg.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJnEWwmYCMGGozFxy=27X7pmSGgJf+9Y6KpyCmfEvKxvaN4iag@mail.gmail.com>

>The town hall where I live has decided to upload all the information they
have referring to streets, streets numbers and buildings. Good news!!


check the New York City’s GIS department solution:
*
https://www.mapbox.com/blog/nyc-and-openstreetmap-cooperating-through-open-data/
  (Change detection)   https://github.com/osmlab/changewithin
*  http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lxbarth/diary/23588
    double check the licensing issue *"OpenStreetMap's share alike license
means that OpenStreetMap data can't be taken over directly*
*          into New York City public domain datasets but we can use
OpenStreetMap to find out where changes happened. "*

or you can use:
* the overpass api/turbo :
**  see:  "newer:3day in girona"    http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/mXm  (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_turbo/Wizard )
**  see:  “(amenity=* or shop=* ) and newer:30day in girona”
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/mXu
* or you can use the osmium tool to detect changes  (
http://osmcode.org/osmium-tool/manual.html )

And you can use some specialized tools like :
*  https://osm.expandable.dk/ (
https://github.com/MichaelVL/osm-analytic-tracker )    ( you can install
for your area )
*  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Detect_Vandalism#Tools
*  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quality_assurance#Monitoring_Tools

or other tools for detecting errors:
*  OSM inspector for addresses :
https://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=addresses&lon=2.82247&lat=41.96773&zoom=12
 ( Select  view: "Addresses" )
   ( see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Inspector )
* ...

This is not a full list, ...

if you want, I can help creating   "Taginfo for Girona"  instance ( docker
image )

regards,
Imre



2017-02-23 9:03 GMT+01:00 toni hernández <toni at sigte.udg.edu>:

> Hello guys,
>
> The town hall where I live has decided to upload all the information they
> have referring to streets, streets numbers and buildings. Good news!!
>
> Once they have uploaded all this information, they need to keep this
> information up-to-date. That's why they want some tool that allows them to
> detect any new edition in the municipality.
>
> In your expert opinion, what is the best tool/approach to achieve that?
>
> thanks all.
>
> --
> *Toni Hernández Vallès*
> Servei de Sistemes d'Informació Geogràfica i Teledetecció
> -
> Universitat de Girona
> *SIGTE*
> -
> Pl. Ferrater Mora 1
> 17071 Girona
> Tel +34 972 418 039 <+34%20972%2041%2080%2039> (7026 intern)
> toni at sigte.udg.edu <toni.hernandez at udg.edu>
>
> http://www.sigte.udg.edu
> Twitter http://twitter.com/SIGTE_UDG
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
>
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From emil at ibikecph.dk  Thu Feb 23 13:15:55 2017
From: emil at ibikecph.dk (Emil Tin)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 14:15:55 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Getting tirex-batch to run on Ubuntu 16.04.
Message-ID: <711A8E59-BF2C-4F92-BC06-00F6EDDEC74C@ibikecph.dk>

Hi,
I have installed Tirex on Ubuntu 16.04, but are having problems getting tirex-batch to run.

  osm at worker3:~$ tirex-batch
  Cannot open connection to master: No such file or directory

  osm at worker3:~$ tirex-master
  Cannot open master UNIX domain socket: No such file or directory



I found out that this is because the folder /var/run/tirex where the PID file is stored is missing. I can create the folder manually:

  root at worker3:~# mkdir /var/run/tirex
  root at worker3:~# chown osm:osm /var/run/tirex

Now tires-master and tirex-batch can run, and I see these processes:

  root at worker3:~# ps aux | grep tirex
  osm       1895  0.0  0.1  64160 18056 ?        Ss   14:08   0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/bin/tirex-master
  root      1901  0.0  0.0  14224  1008 pts/2    S+   14:09   0:00 grep --color=auto tirex

But after a reboot the folder /var/run/tirex/ disappears.What’s supposed to create the folder after reboot?


As can be seen above, I created a user called ‘osm’ which is supposed to be the user that runs tirex. Not sure this is correct, and where I set the user for tirex?

I’m also wondering whether tirex is running (or supposed to run) as a systemd service?




I would be grateful for any help.

Thanks,
Emil

From jochen at remote.org  Thu Feb 23 21:10:53 2017
From: jochen at remote.org (Jochen Topf)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 22:10:53 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Getting tirex-batch to run on Ubuntu 16.04.
In-Reply-To: <711A8E59-BF2C-4F92-BC06-00F6EDDEC74C@ibikecph.dk>
References: <711A8E59-BF2C-4F92-BC06-00F6EDDEC74C@ibikecph.dk>
Message-ID: <20170223211053.6lrd6gg363l2nqds@eldorado.topf.org>

The ubuntu package should have installed init scripts for you. If you
have installed yourself without using the package, look in the "debian"
directory for the *.init files. They should start everything in the
right way. Note that these are for the old init system, since tirex was
created way back when systemd didn't exist.

Jochen

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 02:15:55PM +0100, Emil Tin wrote:
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 14:15:55 +0100
> From: Emil Tin <emil at ibikecph.dk>
> To: dev at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-dev] Getting tirex-batch to run on Ubuntu 16.04.
> 
> Hi,
> I have installed Tirex on Ubuntu 16.04, but are having problems getting tirex-batch to run.
> 
>   osm at worker3:~$ tirex-batch
>   Cannot open connection to master: No such file or directory
> 
>   osm at worker3:~$ tirex-master
>   Cannot open master UNIX domain socket: No such file or directory
> 
> 
> 
> I found out that this is because the folder /var/run/tirex where the PID file is stored is missing. I can create the folder manually:
> 
>   root at worker3:~# mkdir /var/run/tirex
>   root at worker3:~# chown osm:osm /var/run/tirex
> 
> Now tires-master and tirex-batch can run, and I see these processes:
> 
>   root at worker3:~# ps aux | grep tirex
>   osm       1895  0.0  0.1  64160 18056 ?        Ss   14:08   0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/bin/tirex-master
>   root      1901  0.0  0.0  14224  1008 pts/2    S+   14:09   0:00 grep --color=auto tirex
> 
> But after a reboot the folder /var/run/tirex/ disappears.What’s supposed to create the folder after reboot?
> 
> 
> As can be seen above, I created a user called ‘osm’ which is supposed to be the user that runs tirex. Not sure this is correct, and where I set the user for tirex?
> 
> I’m also wondering whether tirex is running (or supposed to run) as a systemd service?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be grateful for any help.
> 
> Thanks,
> Emil
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

-- 
Jochen Topf  jochen at remote.org  https://www.jochentopf.com/  +49-351-31778688


From joi at betra.is  Fri Feb 24 10:26:51 2017
From: joi at betra.is (=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B3hannes_Birgir_Jensson?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 10:26:51 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
Message-ID: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>

As evident in the discussion on issue 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1446 there 
are several people interested in maintaining functionality that existed 
only a few days ago - being able to view single tiles just as easily as 
before.

A patch was submitted which added the tile to the new context menu 
(which in itself is a fine addition but eliminated the functionality 
being discussed). See 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/1450

It was closed and rejected in a very abrupt and unconstructive manner.

The issue itself was also closed with accusation of brigading.

However what was most aberrant there was the assertion "If you want 
something to show tile status then fine. I might even agree to an option 
to get the tile URL or expire a tile (though the latter is perhaps 
unlikely) but it needs to be properly integrated, not just dumping the 
URL in another tab and letting the user fiddle with it."

As the issue is closed to non-collaborators I don't find any other place 
to bring this up than here. Every person who has put their name to the 
discussions, for and against, has done tremendous work for OpenStreetMap 
- that is never in doubt.

But removing functionality and then denying it to be re-added based on 
very little but personal objective is unhelpful and detrimental.

What should have been a great patch with addition of context menu is 
turning into an issue because of one very simple change and resistance 
to tweaking it.

Denigrating active mappers because they are "the 0.001%" of the user 
base is hardly a solid reason - nor is "what makes good UX for the 99% 
not what will make the 1% a little happier".

Did the default map suddenly become a commercial entity overnight which 
thinks of margins and market share? If so I'd like to see the result of 
the A/B testing that validated removing the functionality of viewing 
tiles directly.



--Jói / Stalfur


From chris_hormann at gmx.de  Fri Feb 24 11:07:25 2017
From: chris_hormann at gmx.de (Christoph Hormann)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 12:07:25 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
Message-ID: <201702241207.25677.chris_hormann@gmx.de>

On Friday 24 February 2017, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
> As evident in the discussion on issue
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1446
> there are several people interested in maintaining functionality that
> existed only a few days ago - being able to view single tiles just as
> easily as before.
>
> [...]

I think the key here is to have more diversity and not insist on every 
functionality that could be desirable to be present on 
openstreetmap.org.  Certainly this would seem convenient but it 
ultimately will never be possible and it would be extremely hard to 
maintain.

I for example really miss a coordinate display for the mouse position 
but there are plenty of other map interfaces that offer this so no big 
deal.

When closing the discussion Tom clearly stated what kind of solution he 
considers acceptable:

https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1446#issuecomment-282233549

Everyone is entitled to disagree with that but you'd also have to ask 
yourself why the outlined solution is not acceptable for you.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/


From tom at compton.nu  Fri Feb 24 11:11:41 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:11:41 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
Message-ID: <458726b3-217f-baa4-f6b0-03ff5e009312@compton.nu>

On 24/02/17 10:26, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:

> But removing functionality and then denying it to be re-added based on
> very little but personal objective is unhelpful and detrimental.

As far as I know no functionality has been removed, at least not 
recently. Rather a request to add functionality has been declined.

I assume you are referring to the fact that at one point it was possible 
to access this via the browser's context menu but the recent addition of 
our own context menu has not changed that in any way and you can still 
access that menu by holding down shift.

Rather what happened is that at some point (most likely in the 1.0.0 
release about six months ago) leaflet started marking tile images with a 
CSS attribute that stops the browser offering image options for them in 
the default context menu.

I would quite likely accept a patch to override that CSS setting and 
restore access to the image options in the browser menu but I still do 
not think we should add such an option to our context menu which is 
inherently targeted at a more average level of user.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From me at komzpa.net  Fri Feb 24 11:18:22 2017
From: me at komzpa.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Darafei_=22Kom=D1=8Fpa=22_Praliaskouski?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:18:22 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
Message-ID: <CAC8Q8t+kd9fAgwUCsr4fx4uc+JEaYf7BUtaVyse7rhUV4Gk+Ug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

пт, 24 февр. 2017 г. в 13:30, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson <joi at betra.is>:

> As evident in the discussion on issue
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1446 there
> are several people interested in maintaining functionality that existed
> only a few days ago - being able to view single tiles just as easily as
> before.
>

Can you share your use case?
Why would you need to view single tiles?
What does this solve for you that can not be done by other means?
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From tom at compton.nu  Fri Feb 24 11:19:20 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:19:20 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
Message-ID: <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>

On 24/02/17 10:26, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:

> As evident in the discussion on issue
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1446 there
> are several people interested in maintaining functionality that existed
> only a few days ago - being able to view single tiles just as easily as
> before.
>
> A patch was submitted which added the tile to the new context menu
> (which in itself is a fine addition but eliminated the functionality
> being discussed). See
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/1450

That is not an accurate description of what happened as I explain in my 
previous message.

> It was closed and rejected in a very abrupt and unconstructive manner.

I respectfully disagree that I have been unconstructive. I have made 
clear that there are a number of ways that the requested functionality 
could be made available including in a detailed response I posted this 
morning which you in fact quote from.

> The issue itself was also closed with accusation of brigading.

Well it was a little odd that we suddenly got several people who are not 
regular commenters turning up in the space of a few minute to add "me 
too" style responses.

> But removing functionality and then denying it to be re-added based on
> very little but personal objective is unhelpful and detrimental.

Again that is not what happened. At no point was a decision made to 
remove this functionality. Rather it was removed essentially by accident 
when leaflet was upgraded and only six months later when we added our 
own context menu have people complained about it.

> What should have been a great patch with addition of context menu is
> turning into an issue because of one very simple change and resistance
> to tweaking it.
>
> Denigrating active mappers because they are "the 0.001%" of the user
> base is hardly a solid reason - nor is "what makes good UX for the 99%
> not what will make the 1% a little happier".

It's not intended to denigrate anybody, it's simply to explain that we 
can't simply add everything that is of use to some small subset of users 
because there is a cost to everything both directly in terms of 
maintenance and indirectly in terms of complicating the UI for all the 
other users that will never use a given option.

More specifically there were a number of people asserting that this 
feature was somehow to all mappers and I was trying to make the point 
that really that wasn't true at all and that the was majority of mappers 
would never have any use for it.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com  Fri Feb 24 11:27:45 2017
From: davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com (Dave F)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:27:45 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
Message-ID: <58B018B1.10608@btinternet.com>


On 24/02/2017 10:26, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
>
> It was closed and rejected in a very abrupt and unconstructive manner.

Yes. This seems to be Tom Hughes's default reaction. He's certainly 
trigger happy with the close button.

DaveF


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com  Fri Feb 24 11:33:07 2017
From: davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com (Dave F)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:33:07 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
Message-ID: <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>


On 24/02/2017 11:19, Tom Hughes wrote:
>
> Well it was a little odd that we suddenly got several people who are 
> not regular commenters turning up in the space of a few minute to add 
> "me too" style responses.
>

What's wrong with that? There are numerous discussions in Dev that I 
have no interest in, but on occasion there's something relevant to my 
OSM usage & I will make a comment. This current topic appears to be 
relevant to a few other users.

OSM Github is not a private club. You should be welcoming other 
contributors, not 'closing' on them.

DaveF

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From tom at compton.nu  Fri Feb 24 11:33:49 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:33:49 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <458726b3-217f-baa4-f6b0-03ff5e009312@compton.nu>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <458726b3-217f-baa4-f6b0-03ff5e009312@compton.nu>
Message-ID: <543359fd-091e-a512-a89a-2cc30a2abdfb@compton.nu>

On 24/02/17 11:11, Tom Hughes wrote:

> Rather what happened is that at some point (most likely in the 1.0.0
> release about six months ago) leaflet started marking tile images with a
> CSS attribute that stops the browser offering image options for them in
> the default context menu.

This is the actual commit to leaflet that caused it:

   https://github.com/Leaflet/Leaflet/commit/0cfe8589

in response to this issue, which unfortunately has no explanation:

   https://github.com/leaflet/leaflet/issues/2396

That then made it's way to OSM when leaflet 1.0.0 was release and we 
switched to it on 27th September last year.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From tom at compton.nu  Fri Feb 24 11:41:23 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:41:23 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4294be67-16b1-d57f-1762-f6da5d1fcb68@compton.nu>

On 24/02/17 11:33, Dave F wrote:

> On 24/02/2017 11:19, Tom Hughes wrote:
>
>> Well it was a little odd that we suddenly got several people who are
>> not regular commenters turning up in the space of a few minute to add
>> "me too" style responses.
>
> What's wrong with that? There are numerous discussions in Dev that I
> have no interest in, but on occasion there's something relevant to my
> OSM usage & I will make a comment. This current topic appears to be
> relevant to a few other users.

The problem is that there is a subset of people that think tickets are a 
popularity contest and that if they can just get enough people to vote 
for a ticket it will be accepted/implemented/whatever.

That's not how it works however, in almost any open source project in 
fact, because things are done because people want to work on them and 
are accepted when they are the right thing, whether they are being asked 
for by one person or a hundred people.

Even if a hundred people turned up to say they would use this that tells 
us nothing about the other million mappers that have no idea what github 
even is so it's really not helpful to fill everybody's mail boxes up 
with "+1" messages that we're all just going to ignore anyway.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From tom at compton.nu  Fri Feb 24 11:41:33 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:41:33 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <58B018B1.10608@btinternet.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <58B018B1.10608@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <0b14aa18-5be5-8dae-2980-126db9ca92a9@compton.nu>

On 24/02/17 11:27, Dave F wrote:

> On 24/02/2017 10:26, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
>>
>> It was closed and rejected in a very abrupt and unconstructive manner.
>
> Yes. This seems to be Tom Hughes's default reaction. He's certainly
> trigger happy with the close button.

Tickets can always be reopened.

If I'm going to say no to something I might as well close it at the same 
time otherwise I have to remember to do so later. If there is a 
subsequent discussion that suggests there is a good reason to do it the 
ticket can and will be reopened.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From openstreetmap at michael.fam-zangl.net  Fri Feb 24 12:11:51 2017
From: openstreetmap at michael.fam-zangl.net (Michael Zangl)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 13:11:51 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <4294be67-16b1-d57f-1762-f6da5d1fcb68@compton.nu>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <4294be67-16b1-d57f-1762-f6da5d1fcb68@compton.nu>
Message-ID: <58B02307.605@michael.fam-zangl.net>

Hi,

A few words of someone who is just "using" the OSM website:

I personally think the current Menu is full enough. We should focus on
making that menu better for normal visitors. I could not really think of
a use case where a normal user would want to see a specific map tile. In
my opinion, they should not even know that map tiles exist. If you want
to export a part of the map, use the image functionality in the export tab.

I like that the main site has some dev stuff on it and is sort of a
browser for the database. But for many people, it is the first point
where they get in touch with OSM. And they don't know what a attribute
list is, they don't know about relations and for them, most
functionality of the page is not usable (changesets, object queries,
...). Compared to other map pages, the page is really "technical" the
way it is now.

I support the decision to not include that link to the tile source on
the website: This is a not a dev playground, this is a website that
should be used by millions of normal users. It should provide an entry
point for people that want to improve the OSM database. It should not be
a maintenance tool.

Michael

Am 24.02.2017 um 12:41 schrieb Tom Hughes:
> On 24/02/17 11:33, Dave F wrote:
> 
>> On 24/02/2017 11:19, Tom Hughes wrote:
>>
>>> Well it was a little odd that we suddenly got several people who are
>>> not regular commenters turning up in the space of a few minute to add
>>> "me too" style responses.
>>
>> What's wrong with that? There are numerous discussions in Dev that I
>> have no interest in, but on occasion there's something relevant to my
>> OSM usage & I will make a comment. This current topic appears to be
>> relevant to a few other users.
> 
> The problem is that there is a subset of people that think tickets are a
> popularity contest and that if they can just get enough people to vote
> for a ticket it will be accepted/implemented/whatever.
> 
> That's not how it works however, in almost any open source project in
> fact, because things are done because people want to work on them and
> are accepted when they are the right thing, whether they are being asked
> for by one person or a hundred people.
> 
> Even if a hundred people turned up to say they would use this that tells
> us nothing about the other million mappers that have no idea what github
> even is so it's really not helpful to fill everybody's mail boxes up
> with "+1" messages that we're all just going to ignore anyway.
> 
> Tom
> 



From me at komzpa.net  Fri Feb 24 12:46:38 2017
From: me at komzpa.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Darafei_=22Kom=D1=8Fpa=22_Praliaskouski?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 12:46:38 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <0b14aa18-5be5-8dae-2980-126db9ca92a9@compton.nu>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <58B018B1.10608@btinternet.com>
 <0b14aa18-5be5-8dae-2980-126db9ca92a9@compton.nu>
Message-ID: <CAC8Q8tLjOSKgUWqUNycOUmsnjDH-5keQeVGyL776VKUaKLyfnw@mail.gmail.com>

пт, 24 февр. 2017 г. в 14:44, Tom Hughes <tom at compton.nu>:

> On 24/02/17 11:27, Dave F wrote:
>
> > On 24/02/2017 10:26, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
> >>
> >> It was closed and rejected in a very abrupt and unconstructive manner.
> >
> > Yes. This seems to be Tom Hughes's default reaction. He's certainly
> > trigger happy with the close button.
>
> Tickets can always be reopened.
>

Unfortunately, discussion can't happen in tickets where discussion was
limited to collaborators:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/122

Discussion can happen outside, but from my experience tickets are being
closed at sight and aren't really being reopened. People just go away and
chat "oh how stupid we can do nothing about it" in chats.

It also doesn't create a friendly atmosphere at all when you get a response
like this minutes after creating a ticket:
https://pp.vk.me/c837224/v837224128/2859d/dX2cSI8qmY4.jpg (and it gets
reopened after IRC discussion and this comment gets magically disappeared).

Also an issue being closed makes it look like it already was addressed and
"there's nothing we can do", while there are still a lot of things that can
be done:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/135 (/map call is
extremely inefficient now, and that's architectural issue).

Closing tickets like this makes it look like there are no issues in the
project. So when Foundation Board has a meeting, how exactly can they get
the idea there's a set of internal issues to handle, and it may be worth at
the point hiring someone to resolve it, instead of hoping for volunteers to
handle the low-level architecture issues in their free time?

If I'm going to say no to something I might as well close it at the same
> time otherwise I have to remember to do so later. If there is a
> subsequent discussion that suggests there is a good reason to do it the
> ticket can and will be reopened.
>
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From dieterdreist at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 12:53:57 2017
From: dieterdreist at gmail.com (Martin Koppenhoefer)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 13:53:57 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <58B02307.605@michael.fam-zangl.net>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <4294be67-16b1-d57f-1762-f6da5d1fcb68@compton.nu>
 <58B02307.605@michael.fam-zangl.net>
Message-ID: <CABPTjTA+zR9idOF3QMMH6tmoF1+nhs2jh6TWrD3DGw7fXKeZsQ@mail.gmail.com>

2017-02-24 13:11 GMT+01:00 Michael Zangl <
openstreetmap at michael.fam-zangl.net>:

> This is a not a dev playground, this is a website that
> should be used by millions of normal users. It should provide an entry
> point for people that want to improve the OSM database. It should not be
> a maintenance tool.
>


which page do you suggest should those millions of users use after they
have become contributors and want to see tile urls?

It would be nice to have a custom right click menu, either completely
custom by user pref or for the start generalized in basic groups (like
logged in and not, where not logged in users get more "common map
right-click features", and logged in user get more mapper-interest right
click functionality). Current state could be used as default.
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From blake.girardot at hotosm.org  Fri Feb 24 14:43:01 2017
From: blake.girardot at hotosm.org (Blake Girardot HOT/OSM)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 15:43:01 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAJtx3h4tu+B7gGT+nTZzmMgQmG11eCj02oqVVckNZp_z8UEnYw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> On 24/02/2017 11:19, Tom Hughes wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well it was a little odd that we suddenly got several people who are not
>> regular commenters turning up in the space of a few minute to add "me too"
>> style responses.
>>
>
> What's wrong with that? There are numerous discussions in Dev that I have no
> interest in, but on occasion there's something relevant to my OSM usage & I
> will make a comment. This current topic appears to be relevant to a few
> other users.
>
> OSM Github is not a private club. You should be welcoming other
> contributors, not 'closing' on them.
>
> DaveF

I second this 100%!

If something is of interest to someone and they know other
stakeholders who have similar use cases or the feature is important to
them, getting them to actually contribute their input is really an
invaluable opportunity for developers.

No one person is ever going to be able to imagine how the 1000's of
users of OSM might have needs. This was a great example (maybe) of
someone taking the time to find others who have similar needs and
getting them to share their user stories as well.

I actually doubt that is what happened, but instead that users who
take the time to follow the project just happened to have similar use
cases and joined the conversation. They probably represent many other
users.

I would also say that well added UI for power users, educates and
helps build skills and knowledge in all users.

All that said, the time and dedication people like TomH, Lonvia,
bhousel and the other contributors to the OSM ecosystem contribute is
incredible and we would be in a very different place without them. And
the feedback on this thread is very valuable to helping make the
community better so thank you all for speaking up and sharing your
perspective.

Cheers
Blake
-- 
----------------------------------------------------
Blake Girardot
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team, TM3 Project Manager
skype: jblakegirardot
HOT Core Team Contact: info at hotosm.org


From tom at compton.nu  Fri Feb 24 15:14:43 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 15:14:43 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <CAJtx3h4tu+B7gGT+nTZzmMgQmG11eCj02oqVVckNZp_z8UEnYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAJtx3h4tu+B7gGT+nTZzmMgQmG11eCj02oqVVckNZp_z8UEnYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbdf7506-96c2-bde1-9093-dda243592509@compton.nu>

On 24/02/17 14:43, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24/02/2017 11:19, Tom Hughes wrote:
>>
>>> Well it was a little odd that we suddenly got several people who are not
>>> regular commenters turning up in the space of a few minute to add "me too"
>>> style responses.
>>
>> What's wrong with that? There are numerous discussions in Dev that I have no
>> interest in, but on occasion there's something relevant to my OSM usage & I
>> will make a comment. This current topic appears to be relevant to a few
>> other users.
>>
>> OSM Github is not a private club. You should be welcoming other
>> contributors, not 'closing' on them.
>
> I second this 100%!
>
> If something is of interest to someone and they know other
> stakeholders who have similar use cases or the feature is important to
> them, getting them to actually contribute their input is really an
> invaluable opportunity for developers.

An issue tracker is not a general discussion board though, and there has 
to be some sort of limit to discussions there if we're not all going to 
be driven insane.

The people that were turning up in this case were not saying adding new 
information by saying "I use that to do X" where X was something new 
that nobody had mentioned before that might change the balance of 
whether it was worth doing but rather they were just asserting that they 
used the feature like the previous commenters - they were adding 
quantity to the discussion not quality.

I don't normally lock issues, so in the vast majority of cases people 
are welcome to comment on closed issues if they have some new 
information to add, and if that leads to a closed issue being reopened 
then that is fine.

I lock issues when people are continuing to post in a way which is not 
useful and doesn't add anything - restating a position over and over 
again without adding new information is not meaningful discussion and 
when that happens I may decide to lock the issue.

The alternative (to preserve my sanity) is that I simply unsubscribe 
from those issues and leave people to waffle on in an echo chamber but 
I'm not really sure that's better for anybody is it?

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From me at komzpa.net  Fri Feb 24 15:59:20 2017
From: me at komzpa.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Darafei_=22Kom=D1=8Fpa=22_Praliaskouski?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 15:59:20 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAC8Q8t+BnuSxMev-b_sQYwPYF+gyvzkH-uSq2JeXyw=bu6f+uA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!


> OSM Github is not a private club. You should be welcoming other
> contributors, not 'closing' on them.
>

Here lies a heartbreaking thing:

openstreetmap-website is actually a single person's project.
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/graphs/contributors

If you look at it, it's not "community developed this", or "OSMF developed
this", or even "a private club developed this" which you paint as a dark
scenario.

It's being mostly written and deployed by the same person.
This is Bus Factor 1 scenario.

Short term: we need to keep Tom Hughes sane and safe.
Long term: we either close OpenStreetMap as a whole, or make sure there's a
bigger stable development team behind openstreetmap-website.
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From willtemperley at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 16:04:41 2017
From: willtemperley at gmail.com (William Temperley)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 17:04:41 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <fbdf7506-96c2-bde1-9093-dda243592509@compton.nu>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAJtx3h4tu+B7gGT+nTZzmMgQmG11eCj02oqVVckNZp_z8UEnYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbdf7506-96c2-bde1-9093-dda243592509@compton.nu>
Message-ID: <CAMegOARy2pNNAcPh+eBMsLLWty_fyiL17A31=W+1V+GRth7orA@mail.gmail.com>

On 24 February 2017 at 16:14, Tom Hughes <tom at compton.nu> wrote:

> On 24/02/17 14:43, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 24/02/2017 11:19, Tom Hughes wrote:
>>>
>>> Well it was a little odd that we suddenly got several people who are not
>>>> regular commenters turning up in the space of a few minute to add "me
>>>> too"
>>>> style responses.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What's wrong with that? There are numerous discussions in Dev that I
>>> have no
>>> interest in, but on occasion there's something relevant to my OSM usage
>>> & I
>>> will make a comment. This current topic appears to be relevant to a few
>>> other users.
>>>
>>> OSM Github is not a private club. You should be welcoming other
>>> contributors, not 'closing' on them.
>>>
>>
>> I second this 100%!
>>
>> If something is of interest to someone and they know other
>> stakeholders who have similar use cases or the feature is important to
>> them, getting them to actually contribute their input is really an
>> invaluable opportunity for developers.
>>
>
> An issue tracker is not a general discussion board though, and there has
> to be some sort of limit to discussions there if we're not all going to be
> driven insane.
>
> The people that were turning up in this case were not saying adding new
> information by saying "I use that to do X" where X was something new that
> nobody had mentioned before that might change the balance of whether it was
> worth doing but rather they were just asserting that they used the feature
> like the previous commenters - they were adding quantity to the discussion
> not quality.
>
> I don't normally lock issues, so in the vast majority of cases people are
> welcome to comment on closed issues if they have some new information to
> add, and if that leads to a closed issue being reopened then that is fine.
>
> I lock issues when people are continuing to post in a way which is not
> useful and doesn't add anything - restating a position over and over again
> without adding new information is not meaningful discussion and when that
> happens I may decide to lock the issue.
>
> The alternative (to preserve my sanity) is that I simply unsubscribe from
> those issues and leave people to waffle on in an echo chamber but I'm not
> really sure that's better for anybody is it?
>
>
>

I agree with Tom that an issue tracker is not a discussion board.

The way it plays out is that the 0.1% with the (edge) use-case will come
across the issue, because it affects them and they searched for it.
Nobody else will know or care about its existence, because it hasn't
affected them. The result is therefore a very one-sided debate, and the
developer feels rail-roaded.

I would suggest a new thread on this list (which is a discussion board)
with a subject something like "Show tile image option removed from OSM
website".
This can then be linked to from the offending issue and Tom can get on with
his good work.
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From dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 16:24:15 2017
From: dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQvNC40YLRgNC40Lkg0JrQuNGB0LXQu9C10LI=?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 12:24:15 -0400
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <CAMegOARy2pNNAcPh+eBMsLLWty_fyiL17A31=W+1V+GRth7orA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAJtx3h4tu+B7gGT+nTZzmMgQmG11eCj02oqVVckNZp_z8UEnYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbdf7506-96c2-bde1-9093-dda243592509@compton.nu>
 <CAMegOARy2pNNAcPh+eBMsLLWty_fyiL17A31=W+1V+GRth7orA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA9QNxN9-Aw5hTRXsQpVGAeXCULpR4r328GCwG+tXskSgrP4qw@mail.gmail.com>

My five cents:

at this moment, we have some widely used resources such as osm.org and osm
carto,
started and threated as single persons gh repository.

And we (osm community) don't have a way to discuss and evaluate changes in
collaborative way.
Usually maintainer just decides "Do I love this feature or not" and that's
a kind of a problem.

Yes "+ one" can say nothing about millions of other users, but neighter
main maintainer can.

I think we have to have key features as osm.org and main style maintained
in more open way.

Regards, Dmitry.

2017-02-24 12:04 GMT-04:00 William Temperley <willtemperley at gmail.com>:

>
>
> On 24 February 2017 at 16:14, Tom Hughes <tom at compton.nu> wrote:
>
>> On 24/02/17 14:43, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 24/02/2017 11:19, Tom Hughes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well it was a little odd that we suddenly got several people who are not
>>>>> regular commenters turning up in the space of a few minute to add "me
>>>>> too"
>>>>> style responses.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's wrong with that? There are numerous discussions in Dev that I
>>>> have no
>>>> interest in, but on occasion there's something relevant to my OSM usage
>>>> & I
>>>> will make a comment. This current topic appears to be relevant to a few
>>>> other users.
>>>>
>>>> OSM Github is not a private club. You should be welcoming other
>>>> contributors, not 'closing' on them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I second this 100%!
>>>
>>> If something is of interest to someone and they know other
>>> stakeholders who have similar use cases or the feature is important to
>>> them, getting them to actually contribute their input is really an
>>> invaluable opportunity for developers.
>>>
>>
>> An issue tracker is not a general discussion board though, and there has
>> to be some sort of limit to discussions there if we're not all going to be
>> driven insane.
>>
>> The people that were turning up in this case were not saying adding new
>> information by saying "I use that to do X" where X was something new that
>> nobody had mentioned before that might change the balance of whether it was
>> worth doing but rather they were just asserting that they used the feature
>> like the previous commenters - they were adding quantity to the discussion
>> not quality.
>>
>> I don't normally lock issues, so in the vast majority of cases people are
>> welcome to comment on closed issues if they have some new information to
>> add, and if that leads to a closed issue being reopened then that is fine.
>>
>> I lock issues when people are continuing to post in a way which is not
>> useful and doesn't add anything - restating a position over and over again
>> without adding new information is not meaningful discussion and when that
>> happens I may decide to lock the issue.
>>
>> The alternative (to preserve my sanity) is that I simply unsubscribe from
>> those issues and leave people to waffle on in an echo chamber but I'm not
>> really sure that's better for anybody is it?
>>
>>
>>
>
> I agree with Tom that an issue tracker is not a discussion board.
>
> The way it plays out is that the 0.1% with the (edge) use-case will come
> across the issue, because it affects them and they searched for it.
> Nobody else will know or care about its existence, because it hasn't
> affected them. The result is therefore a very one-sided debate, and the
> developer feels rail-roaded.
>
> I would suggest a new thread on this list (which is a discussion board)
> with a subject something like "Show tile image option removed from OSM
> website".
> This can then be linked to from the offending issue and Tom can get on
> with his good work.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
>


-- 
Thank you for your time. Best regards.
Dmitry.
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From tom at compton.nu  Fri Feb 24 16:34:46 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:34:46 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <CAA9QNxN9-Aw5hTRXsQpVGAeXCULpR4r328GCwG+tXskSgrP4qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAJtx3h4tu+B7gGT+nTZzmMgQmG11eCj02oqVVckNZp_z8UEnYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbdf7506-96c2-bde1-9093-dda243592509@compton.nu>
 <CAMegOARy2pNNAcPh+eBMsLLWty_fyiL17A31=W+1V+GRth7orA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA9QNxN9-Aw5hTRXsQpVGAeXCULpR4r328GCwG+tXskSgrP4qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <813c9bf8-70a1-cbfc-0732-fed14e2c6321@compton.nu>

On 24/02/17 16:24, Дмитрий Киселев wrote:

 > at this moment, we have some widely used resources such as osm.org
 > and osm carto, started and threated as single persons gh repository.

Actually carto has had multiple maintainers for some time. Indeed the 
original maintainer, who I assume you are referring to, is not actually 
doing very much these days.

While osm.org has only one maintainer we have been getting some more 
contributors recently. Andy has been refactoring the tests to use 
factories instead of fixtures (a big job) and Herve has been updating 
the emails we send out to start with.

> And we (osm community) don't have a way to discuss and evaluate changes
> in collaborative way.

That can certainly work, and I've discussed it with people in the past 
although not everybody has always agreed with the idea.

The key thing is that you need some mechanism for appointing people to 
that circle of maintainers who get to vote on which things should be 
included and which shouldn't. On most projects that is done by promoting 
from those making useful contributions, so it's hard to move in that 
direction until we can get more people involved.

Note that when I say vote here I don't necessarily mean literally as 
there are different models - some projects have a formal vote of some 
sort for each feature (often requiring at least one +1 and no -1 for 
example) while others allow maintainers to decide on their own but with 
a reversion mechanism if somebody objects.

Note that you do need to preselect the voting group, otherwise anybody 
that can drum up enough +1's can get anything in.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From daniel at xn--ko-wla.pl  Fri Feb 24 16:53:13 2017
From: daniel at xn--ko-wla.pl (=?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_Ko=C4=87?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 17:53:13 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <CAC8Q8t+BnuSxMev-b_sQYwPYF+gyvzkH-uSq2JeXyw=bu6f+uA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAC8Q8t+BnuSxMev-b_sQYwPYF+gyvzkH-uSq2JeXyw=bu6f+uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9e228b615dfb75e9e6bcae146c14e639@xn--ko-wla.pl>

W dniu 24.02.2017 16:59, Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski napisał(a):

> If you look at it, it's not "community developed this", or "OSMF
> developed this", or even "a private club developed this" which you
> paint as a dark scenario.
> 
> It's being mostly written and deployed by the same person.
> This is Bus Factor 1 scenario.

Well, for me it looks like this is not as bad as you say:
https://blog.gravitystorm.co.uk/2017/02/21/steady-progress-osm-website/

But it's not that good either:
https://blog.gravitystorm.co.uk/2016/07/28/getting-involved-in-owg/

"The club" is rather tight now, but at least one person is aware that 
more people would be needed to allow smooth operations and development. 
The main issue seems to be how to attract them?

Sadly, this is not the only fragile element in OSM ecosystem.

We had this "Bus Factor 1 scenario" with forum lately. Fortunately no 
bus was involved and no admin was harmed, but Lambertus has effectively 
"stepped down" one day and was very hard to reach. It ended up with 
saner and more balanced forum management (server migration from 
independent location into OSMF controlled one and 3 new admins), so it's 
much better now than before admin became inactive.

OSM-carto development has also its own problems, although far from being 
that serious. While there's more people on the board with merging rights 
lately, it's still no more than few people active there and agreement is 
rather hard to reach.

I have no idea how to attract more people and at the same time not 
stress the active people even more than they're now. Yet, it's a 
dangerous situation and I hope it will be resolved before some bad 
things will strike us again.

-- 
"Like a halo in reverse" [M. Gore]


From dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 17:15:53 2017
From: dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQvNC40YLRgNC40Lkg0JrQuNGB0LXQu9C10LI=?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 13:15:53 -0400
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <813c9bf8-70a1-cbfc-0732-fed14e2c6321@compton.nu>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAJtx3h4tu+B7gGT+nTZzmMgQmG11eCj02oqVVckNZp_z8UEnYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbdf7506-96c2-bde1-9093-dda243592509@compton.nu>
 <CAMegOARy2pNNAcPh+eBMsLLWty_fyiL17A31=W+1V+GRth7orA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA9QNxN9-Aw5hTRXsQpVGAeXCULpR4r328GCwG+tXskSgrP4qw@mail.gmail.com>
 <813c9bf8-70a1-cbfc-0732-fed14e2c6321@compton.nu>
Message-ID: <CAA9QNxPLYFEK6Pjtp48kfh43pinV6kr40_40eX-KnvM9pccpxw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Actually carto has had multiple maintainers for some time. Indeed the
> original maintainer, who I assume you are referring to, is not actually
> doing very much these days.
> While osm.org has only one maintainer we have been getting some more
> contributors recently.

Andy has been refactoring the tests to use factories instead of fixtures (a
> big job) and Herve has been updating the emails we send out to start with.


I didn't mean the exact number of contributors, my thought was mainly about
the way how the decisions are made.

The key thing is that you need some mechanism for appointing people to that
> circle of maintainers who get to vote on which things should be included
> and which shouldn't. On most projects that is done by promoting from those
> making useful contributions, so it's hard to move in that direction until
> we can get more people involved.


Going that way, maintainer will fall into approval buble, people who shares
maintainers vision have higher chance to become a "good" committer,
so feedback from users who doesn't share yours vison become smaller and
smaller.

I agree that comments on gh isn't the message board, and not all commits
should be applyed and authours/maintainers vision should be respected,
but now we are in quite a weird state:

We have discussion and voting procedure for tags even for the very specific
tags, like electrical power scemes.
Yes there are many problems with tag voting too, but at least tag author
could get some feedback from broad auditory not only from same minded guys.
But for software, the community have no way to affect pull requests or
roadmap items.



2017-02-24 12:34 GMT-04:00 Tom Hughes <tom at compton.nu>:

> On 24/02/17 16:24, Дмитрий Киселев wrote:
>
> > at this moment, we have some widely used resources such as osm.org
> > and osm carto, started and threated as single persons gh repository.
>
> Actually carto has had multiple maintainers for some time. Indeed the
> original maintainer, who I assume you are referring to, is not actually
> doing very much these days.
>
> While osm.org has only one maintainer we have been getting some more
> contributors recently. Andy has been refactoring the tests to use factories
> instead of fixtures (a big job) and Herve has been updating the emails we
> send out to start with.
>
> And we (osm community) don't have a way to discuss and evaluate changes
>> in collaborative way.
>>
>
> That can certainly work, and I've discussed it with people in the past
> although not everybody has always agreed with the idea.
>
> The key thing is that you need some mechanism for appointing people to
> that circle of maintainers who get to vote on which things should be
> included and which shouldn't. On most projects that is done by promoting
> from those making useful contributions, so it's hard to move in that
> direction until we can get more people involved.
>
> Note that when I say vote here I don't necessarily mean literally as there
> are different models - some projects have a formal vote of some sort for
> each feature (often requiring at least one +1 and no -1 for example) while
> others allow maintainers to decide on their own but with a reversion
> mechanism if somebody objects.
>
> Note that you do need to preselect the voting group, otherwise anybody
> that can drum up enough +1's can get anything in.
>
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
> http://compton.nu/
>



-- 
Thank you for your time. Best regards.
Dmitry.
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From tom at compton.nu  Fri Feb 24 17:23:51 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 17:23:51 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <CAA9QNxPLYFEK6Pjtp48kfh43pinV6kr40_40eX-KnvM9pccpxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAJtx3h4tu+B7gGT+nTZzmMgQmG11eCj02oqVVckNZp_z8UEnYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbdf7506-96c2-bde1-9093-dda243592509@compton.nu>
 <CAMegOARy2pNNAcPh+eBMsLLWty_fyiL17A31=W+1V+GRth7orA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA9QNxN9-Aw5hTRXsQpVGAeXCULpR4r328GCwG+tXskSgrP4qw@mail.gmail.com>
 <813c9bf8-70a1-cbfc-0732-fed14e2c6321@compton.nu>
 <CAA9QNxPLYFEK6Pjtp48kfh43pinV6kr40_40eX-KnvM9pccpxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b15bc0ca-e0b3-cd35-51c6-32c510bc9245@compton.nu>

On 24/02/17 17:15, Дмитрий Киселев wrote:

>     The key thing is that you need some mechanism for appointing people
>     to that circle of maintainers who get to vote on which things should
>     be included and which shouldn't. On most projects that is done by
>     promoting from those making useful contributions, so it's hard to
>     move in that direction until we can get more people involved.
>
>
> Going that way, maintainer will fall into approval buble, people who
> shares maintainers vision have higher chance to become a "good" committer,Â
> so feedback from users who doesn't share yours vison become smaller and
> smaller.

Can you give me any example of an major open source project that accepts 
changes on the basis of self appointed voting - ie that says that so 
long as you can get N people to say they want it then it should go in no 
matter what?

> I agree that comments on gh isn't the message board, and not all commits
> should be applyed and authours/maintainers vision should be respected,Â
> but now we are in quite a weird state:Â

Well that completely contradicts your previous paragraph.

You can't say that there should be a person or persons in charge of 
looking after the overall vision and deciding what fits and what doesn't 
and then say that somehow feedback from "enough" users can somehow 
override that.

> We have discussion and voting procedure for tags even for the very
> specific tags, like electrical power scemes.

Which works because the real mappers then just ignore the vote and carry 
on as before ;-)

Seriously, the wiki tag voting is not a good example for, well, anything 
really.

> But for software, the community have no way to affect pull requests or
> roadmap items.

Anybody can effect the "roadmap" because we don't have one. Like most 
open source projects we don't have people we can instruct to follow some 
roadmap so we rely on people writing code and offering it so that is how 
you affect the roadmap.

Yes if you're not a programmer then that doesn't help you but I'm not 
sure what else would - you can propose things on github until you're 
blue in the face but if there's nobody interested in implementing them 
then it's not going to happen.

As to "affecting pull requests" what I'd really love is a concrete 
proposal of how you think this would work - are you really suggesting 
that if enough people say "+1" then it should go in no matter what the 
maintainer(s) think of it? I think if you do that you will have trouble 
keeping maintainers involved.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From yvecai at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 17:25:05 2017
From: yvecai at gmail.com (Yves)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:25:05 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <9e228b615dfb75e9e6bcae146c14e639@xn--ko-wla.pl>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAC8Q8t+BnuSxMev-b_sQYwPYF+gyvzkH-uSq2JeXyw=bu6f+uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9e228b615dfb75e9e6bcae146c14e639@xn--ko-wla.pl>
Message-ID: <6EFA27C3-EA30-49B2-BB5D-B78F08ECF52C@gmail.com>

I have personally three use cases:
a) trigger a faster?  rerender in a mapping situation I'm not sure of myself 
b)  compare a tile with another 
c)  get the tile scheme right zyx or zxy? 
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From dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 17:38:30 2017
From: dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQvNC40YLRgNC40Lkg0JrQuNGB0LXQu9C10LI=?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 13:38:30 -0400
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <6EFA27C3-EA30-49B2-BB5D-B78F08ECF52C@gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAC8Q8t+BnuSxMev-b_sQYwPYF+gyvzkH-uSq2JeXyw=bu6f+uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9e228b615dfb75e9e6bcae146c14e639@xn--ko-wla.pl>
 <6EFA27C3-EA30-49B2-BB5D-B78F08ECF52C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA9QNxN7GURUpTjggYU2n+Tuh7k5iL1XWX+LzvbnTVEBx38uaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, lets continue with our current
"I'm the boss, that's why" approach.

2017-02-24 13:25 GMT-04:00 Yves <yvecai at gmail.com>:

> I have personally three use cases:
> a) trigger a faster? rerender in a mapping situation I'm not sure of
> myself
> b) compare a tile with another
> c) get the tile scheme right zyx or zxy?
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
>


-- 
Thank you for your time. Best regards.
Dmitry.
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From ian.dees at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 18:25:06 2017
From: ian.dees at gmail.com (Ian Dees)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 12:25:06 -0600
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <CAA9QNxN7GURUpTjggYU2n+Tuh7k5iL1XWX+LzvbnTVEBx38uaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAC8Q8t+BnuSxMev-b_sQYwPYF+gyvzkH-uSq2JeXyw=bu6f+uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9e228b615dfb75e9e6bcae146c14e639@xn--ko-wla.pl>
 <6EFA27C3-EA30-49B2-BB5D-B78F08ECF52C@gmail.com>
 <CAA9QNxN7GURUpTjggYU2n+Tuh7k5iL1XWX+LzvbnTVEBx38uaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG91b3T_3cjEVEN-go3Vk2S0Ttpv6v2AOJMrsF8SDWMY+Q6D0w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

Please consider this a reminder that we should maintain a civil discourse,
stay on topic, and not make any personal attacks.

The governance of critical pieces of our software ecosystem are important
to talk about, but please don't attack or ridicule individuals.

Your friendly mailing list moderator,
Ian
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From dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 19:23:30 2017
From: dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQvNC40YLRgNC40Lkg0JrQuNGB0LXQu9C10LI=?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 15:23:30 -0400
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <CAG91b3T_3cjEVEN-go3Vk2S0Ttpv6v2AOJMrsF8SDWMY+Q6D0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAC8Q8t+BnuSxMev-b_sQYwPYF+gyvzkH-uSq2JeXyw=bu6f+uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9e228b615dfb75e9e6bcae146c14e639@xn--ko-wla.pl>
 <6EFA27C3-EA30-49B2-BB5D-B78F08ECF52C@gmail.com>
 <CAA9QNxN7GURUpTjggYU2n+Tuh7k5iL1XWX+LzvbnTVEBx38uaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG91b3T_3cjEVEN-go3Vk2S0Ttpv6v2AOJMrsF8SDWMY+Q6D0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA9QNxPKBUiqKj+onGDrfbBMfVM9kfZP5VcRsK=_fcudCeC1gQ@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't want to be offencive,
sorry if my mail sounds like personall offence,
I didn't meant Tom or anybody personally.

Most of the open-source projects, as I think,
quite authoritarian about commits and pull requests
and ruled the way "I'm the boss, fork it if you are desagree"

I would be happy, if wider osm community have some kind of procedure,
for giving developers more broad and influent feedback about
accepted/rejected pull requests.


2017-02-24 14:25 GMT-04:00 Ian Dees <ian.dees at gmail.com>:

> Hi folks,
>
> Please consider this a reminder that we should maintain a civil discourse,
> stay on topic, and not make any personal attacks.
>
> The governance of critical pieces of our software ecosystem are important
> to talk about, but please don't attack or ridicule individuals.
>
> Your friendly mailing list moderator,
> Ian
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
>


-- 
Thank you for your time. Best regards.
Dmitry.
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From wduffee at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 17:50:44 2017
From: wduffee at gmail.com (Wesley Duffee-Braun)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:50:44 -0600
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <CAA9QNxN7GURUpTjggYU2n+Tuh7k5iL1XWX+LzvbnTVEBx38uaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
 <58B019F3.2080108@btinternet.com>
 <CAC8Q8t+BnuSxMev-b_sQYwPYF+gyvzkH-uSq2JeXyw=bu6f+uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9e228b615dfb75e9e6bcae146c14e639@xn--ko-wla.pl>
 <6EFA27C3-EA30-49B2-BB5D-B78F08ECF52C@gmail.com>
 <CAA9QNxN7GURUpTjggYU2n+Tuh7k5iL1XWX+LzvbnTVEBx38uaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZO7EFb5dCjyyRRSn5ZGGw6LNO1NgP_V4-uEgVY03o35REEnA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm new to OSM @dev but I see a couple of items that have come up on this
thread I wanted to try and note...

First, what is actually the request in Issue 1446? Yes, the word-by-word
request is to add the entry back to the right-click menu, but it seems a
little more than that. Useful (at least to some) functionality was removed
without replacement. While there is a browser workaround, that is
apparently not useable for everyone. I personally feel like Tom is correct
in saying that the entry doesn't need to be in the right-click menu for
everyone. But the functionality was removed from one location (the menu)
without it being provided elsewhere - that changes the discussion from
being one of UX and shifts it to dictating what users should and shouldn't
be doing with the tool.

The feeling I got from the Issue thread wasn't "the maintainer doesn't see
this functionality as being appropriate for the right-click menu" but
rather "the maintainer doesn't want to provide that functionality to the
user at all". That's likely not what the maintainer meant, but I feel like
that's what came out. And the more there was push back on adding that
functionality *in the menu*, the more the requestors pushed to add it
because they missed the functionality.

I honestly don't think that anyone cares if it is in the right-click menu
for everyone, just that it is available to those users who want it. Perhaps
long-term there could be an "advanced" or "developer" or "kitchen sink"
mode which can be set in the users profile, which enables these kinds of
menu entries while keeping the base UI cleaner? In the mean time since
there is a PR already, why not add it back into the menu?

The second issue is something I've seen arise up a few times on the dev@
list...who sets the agenda. I agree with Dmitry: "the community have no way
to affect pull requests or roadmap items." Of course open source isn't
purely a popularity contest, but if the push back from maintainers is (as
in this instance) "you aren't the norm" then naturally the person making
the request will gather people to +1 their request. That's not getting devs
getting railroaded, that's users advocating for themselves and their
priorities.

Tom, when you say "Can you give me any example of an major open source
project that accepts changes on the basis of self appointed voting - ie
that says that so long as you can get N people to say they want it then it
should go in no matter what?" that's an oversimplification of the way open
source decisions are made and disingenuous. It comes back to organization
and transparency, and expectations of how many engineering resources are
available and what needs to be done by particular milestones. When the time
comes to prioritize however, if everyone assigns their vote to an issue and
nothing else is blocked...then...well, unless it is something clearly out
of line with the project's goals, then that's what is going to get done.

Right now it seems like there isn't a way to get code merged unless -
frankly - you want it to be there. There have been a number of complaints
(on all sides) about the lack of core contributors, but when a PR is made
for a relatively simple issue and then n'acked (as in this case) based on
one person's UX vision....then what message is that sending to potential
core contributors?

best
wesley

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Дмитрий Киселев <
dmitry.v.kiselev at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok, lets continue with our current
> "I'm the boss, that's why" approach.
>
> 2017-02-24 13:25 GMT-04:00 Yves <yvecai at gmail.com>:
>
>> I have personally three use cases:
>> a) trigger a faster? rerender in a mapping situation I'm not sure of
>> myself
>> b) compare a tile with another
>> c) get the tile scheme right zyx or zxy?
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev mailing list
>> dev at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Thank you for your time. Best regards.
> Dmitry.
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
>


-- 
http://www.wesleyduffeebraun.com
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From hriday_nilesh at srmuniv.edu.in  Sat Feb 25 03:58:49 2017
From: hriday_nilesh at srmuniv.edu.in (Hriday N Sanghvi)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 09:28:49 +0530
Subject: [OSM-dev] Fwd:  Submitting proposal for GSoC 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAH+UimWLgwrkJ9chnqmt4jS=K7z9rBGL5k86tv=jnMxOThGD3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH+UimX0ajfPEH6x-MSA=5=qgsVYRWC5F7hu2hSHM+2jDRfbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170216205304.GA30636@denofr.de>
 <CAH+UimV1yXe3Stc6OAdo_5kVu4bEfOnbuKpj+rRqZdxxEMJj=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170218115820.GA402@denofr.de>
 <CAH+UimX-dOBZ__skV+M7m-O=t-EK1DebDz9GDS_Yk9F48VfBcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170221210232.GA11882@denofr.de>
 <CAH+UimUaC0ksbt85V-TA89taXDN8LqAmV_eY+6cyN2Uza38Gpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH+UimXH+mVCbaGEr_Y5-Y4RNGvuyvujZV5431F_Wy=o4e-nXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH+UimW+VMTCUo0yH98gs56a9eBqsG9F7J78qYs=SSbtJK49fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH+UimWLgwrkJ9chnqmt4jS=K7z9rBGL5k86tv=jnMxOThGD3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH+UimX2VipevSLtRF2GGoR2h40-NG3NNReXSpQqo37KzjcAxw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Sarah,

Thank you for the suggestions.

http://localhost:8080/nominatim/search.php seems to be working now.

Could you please let me know the next steps necessary to prepare for the
Postcode project? The password is needed to download or upload files from
the Vagrant server using either SSH or an FTP client. I have tried using
‘ubuntu’ and ‘vagrant’ as probable default passwords but get the
“permission denied” message. I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thank you.

Regards,

Hriday.
​
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From mmd.osm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 09:57:53 2017
From: mmd.osm at gmail.com (mmd)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 10:57:53 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] Removing functionality and giving just No as answer
In-Reply-To: <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
References: <dc64078cd12cd602b0b076161a84c588@betra.is>
 <78233232-fd8c-f157-9057-1461d4fb1aba@compton.nu>
Message-ID: <o8rkes$gbh$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Am 24.02.2017 um 12:19 schrieb Tom Hughes:

> 
> More specifically there were a number of people asserting that this
> feature was somehow to all mappers and I was trying to make the point
> that really that wasn't true at all and that the was majority of mappers
> would never have any use for it.
> 

Well, even the first ever book on OSM written by Frederik and Jochen
back in 2010 describes a manual procedure to append /status and /dirty
to tile URLs. Also, the approach has been described a number of times on
OSM Forum and Help and even been recommended to absolute newbies on
different occasions. I'm pretty sure that folks who have been around for
some time at least have some passive knowledge about it.

As a side note, 'fsmap' created by user SammysHP has a nice right-click
context menu to show the current tile, check its status and request
re-rendering. Maybe that could be something worth considering for
osm.org as well?

http://www.sammyshp.de/fsmap/#18/51.01486/13.63683

-- 




From bryan at 7thposition.com  Sat Feb 25 21:46:22 2017
From: bryan at 7thposition.com (Bryan Housel)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 16:46:22 -0500
Subject: [OSM-dev] iD is getting a new menu...
Message-ID: <1F1636E0-4F2E-4C17-AA1F-887F499FD90E@7thposition.com>

Just wanted to pre-announce that the next version of iD (coming sometime in March) will have a new menu!

We don’t often change iD’s user interface, but we felt that iD was starting to outgrow the “radial menu”, and it was time to move to a more traditional right-click context menu.  The new edit menu will only pop up when the user right-clicks, so it will not get in the way of editing as much as the old menu did.  Also by switching from a circular shape to a vertical bar, we are less constrained by the number of items that we can add to the menu.

Details about how the work came together over the past month, and screenshots can be found here:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/pull/3753 <https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/pull/3753>
Thanks to Kushan for much of the code, and Rasagy for the design work.

Please try out editing with the new menu by using the mirror here:
https://openstreetmap.us/iD/master/ <https://openstreetmap.us/iD/master/>

Thanks,
Bryan


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From mtm at opencagedata.com  Sun Feb 26 14:09:32 2017
From: mtm at opencagedata.com (Marc Tobias)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 15:09:32 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] [Dev] ashok123 from anipr signed up
In-Reply-To: <58b2df449575e_da53f8e3a20a26c19602e8@system-services01.va.3sca.net.mail>
References: <58b2df449575e_da53f8e3a20a26c19602e8@system-services01.va.3sca.net.mail>
Message-ID: <d72131ec-b37b-94ec-ac68-23cee47d8399@opencagedata.com>

Same guy, suspended

On 26/02/2017 14:59, 3scale Notification wrote:
> Dear Marc,
>
> ashok123 from anipr has signed-up for: Opencagedata geocoder API.
>
> *New user details:*
>
>   * *Username:* ashok123
>   * *Email:* ashokdhudla at gmail.com
>
> *New account details:*
>
>   * *Company Name:* anipr
>   * *How did you hear about us?:* google
>   * *Are you mainly interested in forward or reverse geocoding?:* reverse
>   * *Which programming language(s), libraries, and/or framework(s) do
>     you use?:* java script
>   * *Are you interested in any specific countries or parts of the
>     world?:* United Arab Emirates
>   * *What geocoding service(s) are you currently using?:* not provided
>     by user
>
> View new signup in your 3scale Admin Portal
> <https://opencagedata-admin.3scale.net/buyers/accounts/2445581847807>
>
> —
> You are receiving this because you subscribed to this notification.
> View notification preferences on 3scale.net
> <https://opencagedata-admin.3scale.net/p/admin/user/notification_preferences>
>
>



From singhalok641 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 26 19:37:50 2017
From: singhalok641 at gmail.com (Alok Singh)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 01:07:50 +0530
Subject: [OSM-dev] Gsoc 2017
Message-ID: <CAOA8V-OaD0xuZZw6ipYsEHpTee0tJxhw8x5Jsc5fR6HqLTfMZg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I am interested in the project *GPS improvement* for Gsoc
2017.Please guide me how to proceed to the project page and contact to the
potential mentor- Lulu -Ann for guidance.

Thanks
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From osm-peda at won2.de  Mon Feb 27 19:45:03 2017
From: osm-peda at won2.de (Peter Barth)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:45:03 +0100
Subject: [OSM-dev] OpenStreetMap accepted for this year's GSoC
Message-ID: <20170227194503.GB12480@behemoth.won2.de>

Hi all,

we got accepted as a mentoring organization for this year's GSoC!
https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/5161142197420032/

Yay! So what's next? Students now have a chance to get to know their
favorite organization, talk to possible mentors, make them self known 
to the project idea they like best and all that. Starting from March 
20. the official application period for students opens.

Besides I'm excited to tell you that the EWG tries to resurrect :-)
They're a perfect match for our GSoC participation by finding mentors,
finding help for students and all that. As such the EWG will have their
first meeting tomorrow at 20:00 UTC on Mumble (the HOT server). If
you're a potential mentor or want to join/help the EWG feel free to
join! The first meeting is in particular to tidy up our ideas list and
try to assemble a list of mentors. Hope to see you.

Happy GSoC,
Peda

-- 


From tom at compton.nu  Tue Feb 28 00:20:11 2017
From: tom at compton.nu (Tom Hughes)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:20:11 +0000
Subject: [OSM-dev] OpenStreetMap accepted for this year's GSoC
In-Reply-To: <20170227194503.GB12480@behemoth.won2.de>
References: <20170227194503.GB12480@behemoth.won2.de>
Message-ID: <2cd1b81e-09a3-2664-bf7b-60612ccfde9d@compton.nu>

On 27/02/17 19:45, Peter Barth wrote:

> Besides I'm excited to tell you that the EWG tries to resurrect :-)

Which is news to the EWG members I think.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/


From ilya at zverev.info  Tue Feb 28 09:06:55 2017
From: ilya at zverev.info (Ilya Zverev)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:06:55 +0300
Subject: [OSM-dev] OpenStreetMap accepted for this year's GSoC
In-Reply-To: <20170227194503.GB12480@behemoth.won2.de>
References: <20170227194503.GB12480@behemoth.won2.de>
Message-ID: <328e7864-2b3e-e6b7-b00d-131706b73286@zverev.info>

Hi,

There was a misunderstanding concerning the new Engineering Working 
Group. We had that group for a while, it discussed a lot of engineering 
topics, became a group for programmers and fizzled out two years ago.

The new EWG is not the same group. Programmers will have nothing to do 
on it. The EWG now is for managing developers and development projects. 
Basically it connects new developers with OSM-related projects, helping 
them find a suitable task, and helping OSM-related projects with finding 
new developers. EWG members do not write code (as members) and do not 
tell projects maintainers what to do.

The first - and for a time, the only - task is managing the Google 
Summer of Code and its projects. We believe that it would be better done 
by a group than by a single person, like it was last year. If you want 
to join, known fully that it is a management, not development group, we 
would be glad to have your help. Be prepared that your ideas will be put 
on hold: we are starting slow.

The old EWG and the new one are completely different (though the stated 
goals overlap), so we start the member list from scratch. I told the 
"old EWG" members about the transition last Summer, and if any of them - 
and any of you - want to join, you are welcome to enroll and help the 
project.

Also, Peter forgot the link to the Mumble settings and instructions 
page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mumble

Timezone-aware meeting date: 
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=EWG+Meeting&iso=20170228T20&ah=1

Ilya

27.02.2017 22:45, Peter Barth пишет:
> Hi all,
>
> we got accepted as a mentoring organization for this year's GSoC!
> https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/5161142197420032/
>
> Yay! So what's next? Students now have a chance to get to know their
> favorite organization, talk to possible mentors, make them self known
> to the project idea they like best and all that. Starting from March
> 20. the official application period for students opens.
>
> Besides I'm excited to tell you that the EWG tries to resurrect :-)
> They're a perfect match for our GSoC participation by finding mentors,
> finding help for students and all that. As such the EWG will have their
> first meeting tomorrow at 20:00 UTC on Mumble (the HOT server). If
> you're a potential mentor or want to join/help the EWG feel free to
> join! The first meeting is in particular to tidy up our ideas list and
> try to assemble a list of mentors. Hope to see you.
>
> Happy GSoC,
> Peda
>