[Historic] Historic Digest, Vol 7, Issue 6
johnny0
burritojustice at oram.com
Wed Feb 27 23:50:10 UTC 2013
Don't worry Brad, you are not the only one who finds that ISO doc fascinating.
This is great. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it supports decades eg [188] for the 1880s. I guess you could use a date range [1880/1890] or duration [1880/P10Y]. But I think some discussion on the best way to indicate date uncertainty would be worth while.
-John
On 2013-02-27, at 3:18 PM, Brad Thompson <brad at pastmapper.com> wrote:
> Mikel -- that all makes sense to me too. And agree with Jeff that we
> should try using it til it breaks.
>
> One question though about the format of the date_start and date_end values:
>
> Since ISO 8601 allows so many different ways to indicate a time (for
> instance, time offset from UTC, week numbering, etc), would we need to
> determine one strict interpretation of the format and require it to be
> used? In other words, 'if you want to upload your data, you can't have
> week numbers in your timestamps, even though ISO8601 allows it', etc.
> It seems that being strict with this, at least in these early stages,
> this would keep things simple. Then perhaps later, support for parsing
> the expanded syntax permitted by ISO8601 could be enabled, to allow
> uploading of data in any ISO8601-compliant format.
>
> Specifically, the ISO standard document (which I'm not ashamed to say
> I find pretty interesting) goes into much greater detail. Section
> 4.1.2.3 and 4.3.3 deals with the uncertainty issue (pages 13 and 19),
> relevant because of earlier conversations here on the mailing list
> about displaying uncertainty of times and time ranges:
> http://dotat.at/tmp/ISO_8601-2004_E.pdf
>
> - Brad
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:13 PM, <historic-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Dating features (was: Introduction & questions) (Mikel Maron)
>> 2. Re: Dating features (was: Introduction & questions) (Rob Warren)
>> 3. Re: Dating features (was: Introduction & questions) (Jeff Meyer)
>> 4. Re: Dating features (was: Introduction & questions) (Mikel Maron)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:52:51 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com>
>> To: Rob Warren <warren at muninn-project.org>,
>> "historic at openstreetmap.org" <historic at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Historic] Dating features (was: Introduction &
>> questions)
>> Message-ID:
>> <1361987571.55558.YahooMailNeo at web161704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> how about
>>
>> for a date range:
>> base-uri/date_start/date_end/zoom/x/y.img
>>
>> for a moment:
>> base-uri/date/zoom/x/y.img
>>
>> where date values are ISO 8601 strings?
>> ?
>> * Mikel Maron *?+14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Rob Warren <warren at muninn-project.org>
>>> To: historic at openstreetmap.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Historic] Dating features (was: Introduction & questions)
>>>
>>>
>>> No forking yet, we need to figure out time-stamping semi-officially. Rob
>>>
>>> On 27-Feb-13, at 10:18 AM, Mikel Maron wrote:
>>>
>>>> I strongly prefer encoded into the URL, to stay consistent with how tiles are currently requested, and make it simple to adapt client viewers.
>>>>
>>>> Looks like "tile_translate" in mod_tile.c would be the place to start? Have you forked mod_tile on github?
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Historic mailing list
>>> Historic at openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:39:46 -0400
>> From: Rob Warren <warren at muninn-project.org>
>> To: Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "historic at openstreetmap.org" <historic at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Historic] Dating features (was: Introduction &
>> questions)
>> Message-ID: <6ED7E319-B394-4C70-8BDC-B537AA812459 at muninn-project.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>>
>> Mikel,
>>
>> On 27-Feb-13, at 1:52 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:
>>
>>> for a date range:
>>> base-uri/date_start/date_end/zoom/x/y.img
>>
>> Makes sense.
>>
>>> for a moment:
>>> base-uri/date/zoom/x/y.img
>>
>> By 'moment', I take it you mean day? Or are you thinking of "Historic"
>> values?
>>
>> As long as this works on a relation, I'd be happy with it.
>>
>> best,
>> rhw
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:07:30 -0800
>> From: Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org>
>> To: Rob Warren <warren at muninn-project.org>
>> Cc: "historic at openstreetmap.org" <historic at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Historic] Dating features (was: Introduction &
>> questions)
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAA1fFey971u+8o_MP5wcV4yfJE4aHgstcKeiJpnp5sWvcoMMvQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> So, let's test two cases:
>>
>> * Time Pixels:
>>
>> base-uri/YYYY/zoom/x/y.img
>>
>> Should this return start, middle, or end of YYYY, or should we enforce
>> YYYY-MM-DD at a minimum?
>>
>> * Web Mercator of Time:
>>
>> If the year is -2000 BCE, how should we express that?
>>
>> I'm fine with any answer, but we should pick one and use it until it
>> breaks. Sound ok? I'm not smart enough to suggest the answer...
>>
>> - Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Rob Warren <warren at muninn-project.org>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Mikel,
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27-Feb-13, at 1:52 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:
>>>
>>> for a date range:
>>>> base-uri/date_start/date_end/**zoom/x/y.img
>>>>
>>>
>>> Makes sense.
>>>
>>> for a moment:
>>>> base-uri/date/zoom/x/y.img
>>>>
>>>
>>> By 'moment', I take it you mean day? Or are you thinking of "Historic"
>>> values?
>>>
>>> As long as this works on a relation, I'd be happy with it.
>>>
>>> best,
>>> rhw
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Historic mailing list
>>> Historic at openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/historic<http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Meyer
>> Global World History Atlas
>> www.gwhat.org
>> jeff at gwhat.org
>> 206-676-2347
>> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer> osm: Historical
>> OSM<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM>
>> / my OSM user page <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer>
>> t: @GWHAThistory <https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory>
>> f: GWHAThistory <https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:13:08 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com>
>> To: Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org>, Rob Warren
>> <warren at muninn-project.org>
>> Cc: "historic at openstreetmap.org" <historic at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Historic] Dating features (was: Introduction &
>> questions)
>> Message-ID:
>> <1361999588.86800.YahooMailNeo at web161705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>> base-uri/YYYY/zoom/x/y.img
>>> ?
>>> Should this return start, middle, or end of YYYY, or should we enforce YYYY-MM-DD at a minimum?
>> ?
>> Usual way I've seen this dealt with is to assume "start" of the year (or month or day, or whatever fidelity of the given input date).
>>
>>> ?If the year is -2000 BCE, how should we express that?
>>
>> -2000?
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Years
>>
>>
>> It might actually need to be -1999, not so smooth.
>>
>>> ?I'm fine with any answer, but we should pick one and use it until it breaks. Sound ok? I'm not smart enough to suggest the answer...
>>
>> Yea, my suggestion too. This might not be perfect, but we can adjust once we have the basic flow going.
>> As you can see, I'm smart enough to use wikipedia only ;)
>>> By 'moment', I take it you mean day? Or are you thinking of "Historic" values?
>>
>> ?
>> Sorry, I was simply meant a single datetime value.
>>
>>> ?As long as this works on a relation, I'd be happy with it.
>>
>> That would all depend on how the relation is processed by osm2pgsql.
>>
>> -Mikel
>>
>> * Mikel Maron *?+14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org>
>>> To: Rob Warren <warren at muninn-project.org>
>>> Cc: Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com>; "historic at openstreetmap.org" <historic at openstreetmap.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:07 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Historic] Dating features (was: Introduction & questions)
>>>
>>>
>>> So, let's test two cases:
>>>
>>>
>>> * Time Pixels:
>>>
>>>
>>> base-uri/YYYY/zoom/x/y.img
>>>
>>>
>>> Should this return start, middle, or end of YYYY, or should we enforce YYYY-MM-DD at a minimum?
>>>
>>>
>>> * Web Mercator of Time:
>>>
>>>
>>> If the year is -2000 BCE, how should we express that?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm fine with any answer, but we should pick one and use it until it breaks. Sound ok? I'm not smart enough to suggest the answer...
>>>
>>>
>>> - Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Rob Warren <warren at muninn-project.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mikel,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 27-Feb-13, at 1:52 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for a date range:
>>>>> base-uri/date_start/date_end/zoom/x/y.img
>>>>>
>>>>
>> Makes sense.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for a moment:
>>>>> base-uri/date/zoom/x/y.img
>>>>>
>>>> By 'moment', I take it you mean day? Or are you thinking of "Historic" values?
>>>>
>>>> As long as this works on a relation, I'd be happy with it.
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> rhw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Historic mailing list
>>>> Historic at openstreetmap.org
>>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeff Meyer
>>> Global World History Atlas
>>> www.gwhat.org
>>> jeff at gwhat.org
>>> 206-676-2347
>>> ?osm:?Historical OSM?/?my OSM user page
>>> ?t:?@GWHAThistory
>>> ?f:?GWHAThistory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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