[OHM] tagging for historic race tracks / NEH

Mon Dec 29 05:27:22 UTC 2014

Just as a note:

Pleiades <http://pleiades.stoa.org/> is utilizing the following spatial
standards in their linked data:

   - http://geovocab.org/spatial#
   - http://pleiades.stoa.org/places/vocab#

I'd also recommend we look at Getty's Thesaurus of Geographic Names
<http://www.getty.edu/research/tools/vocabularies/tgn/>, which is available
as linked open data.

Cheers!

–Tod

On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Rob H Warren <warren at muninn-project.org>
wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> We've previously talked about 'locking' some key/value pairs in certain
> applications for specific purposes, such as historic:era=RomanRepublic for
> tools that focus exclusively on that period. I don't think that this is
> particularly controversial since it allows different audiences to work with
> the same backend without too much hand-holding on the details.
>
> CRM-CIDOC is sometimes suggested as a meta-data standard for historical
> geodata, but it needs some maturing before it becomes operationally useful.
> The Open Geospatial Consortium has a number of different specs that are of
> interest, including GML. A redux of some of those ideas exist in GeoSparql
> at OpenGIS.net, with the most important being the separation between the
> feature and the geometry. OSM does not currently differentiate between the
> two and this is a problem for us since we can't differentiate between a
> conflict over a feature (which Cartage?) and its location (Where was
> Cartage?).
>
> Something that GML has made an attempt at recording and that remains
> poorly used in OSM is precision and/or accuracy. There is a difference
> between a county border as traced from a 1900 digitized 1:80,000 map and a
> ww1 era fortification whose location is fixed using a GPS.
>
> We've similarly discussed temporal issues on the list before; I would push
> for a two level solution that mixes both era's and XMLSchema-style dates.
> This allows for the use of well-known era tags 'ww1' while anchoring them
> in specific datetimes. Time OWL already supports this and the Open
> Geospatial Consortium is also heading in this direction with their own
> upcoming recommendations.
>
> One thing we need to communicate well in the proposal: this isn't about
> rendering a nice map with a time slider but about managing the data
> underneath that drives the visualization. Not all reviewers will
> immediately understand the difference and we have to highlight it.
>
> Quick question: does anyone see a massive need to support something else
> that WGS84 in the immediate future?
>
> best,
> rhw
>
> On Dec 28, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org> wrote:
>
> > Rob & the list -
> >
> > Is there a metadata standard for historical geodata we should be
> encouraging / eventually enforcing for contributions?
> >
> > Even if there's not a perfect fit, it would be interesting to see the
> differences between that effort & what the OHM/OSM key:value structures can
> support easily.
> >
> > Enforcing start_date at the API level might be a start in this area?
> >
> > - Jeff
> >
> > On Saturday, December 27, 2014, Rob H Warren <warren at muninn-project.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > We have been trying to fit substantially more information into the OSM
> tagging schema than it was originally meant to support. Workarounds are
> available for simple things with start_date and end_date, but we can only
> go so far with things like 'DisusedRailroad'.
> >
> >> From other work, the recording of historical GIS data requires:
> >
> > a) Labelling by language, datetime and by source. The 'source' is
> necessary to keep sanity when dealing with multiple nomenclatures used by
> different people.
> > b) The associated feature by datetime.
> > c) The different geometries associated to the features by datetime.
> > d) The different states (active, disused, abandoned, damaged) by
> datetime.
> >
> > The above is the only way to capture all of the use cases you mention.
> Given the amount of work that an NEH submission is going to be, perhaps we
> should look at a redesign of what is under the hood. OSM is already using
> two different databases for editing and rendering!
> >
> > best,
> > rhw
> >
> >
> > On Dec 19, 2014, at 8:00 AM, historic-request at openstreetmap.org wrote:
> >
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 11:20:07 -0800
> >> From: Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org>
> >> To: Richard Welty <rwelty at averillpark.net>
> >> Cc: "historic at openstreetmap.org" <historic at openstreetmap.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [OHM] tagging for historic race tracks
> >> Message-ID:
> >>      <CAA1fFexccePOAQ=
> dHzrMg-b-u2HeWQf4qq46vfWGB38Ripz9zw at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> These are great questions to consider - I've asked the same thing about
> how
> >> to represent historical Tour de France routes on a year by year basis.
> >>
> >> I'll defer to others on this list on how to handle, but I did think
> there
> >> was something similar to bus routes that might be reappropriated for
> this
> >> type of application (e.g. a use-based set of tags, rather than
> >> feature-based).
> >>
> >> Do you want to take stab at figuring out a starting point for tagging
> >> conventions for this stuff & posting it on the wiki? He who writes first
> >> writes best?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Richard Welty <rwelty at averillpark.net
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> more fun tagging issues to consider:
> >>>
> >>> 1) the original watkins glen course (1948 through
> >>> the early 50s) ran on public roads that still exist.
> >>> so it could be tagged in OSM. but maybe it should
> >>> be in OHM instead? what do we do? it will never
> >>> be raced on again.
> >>>
> >>> 2) there are traces of old ovals in the form of
> >>> city streets, one which is complete in San
> >>> Francisco, and one which is only in part in
> >>> Rhode Island. so these could be partially or
> >>> completely tagged in OSM. again, what
> >>> should best practice be? once more, these
> >>> will never be race tracks again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> richard
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> rwelty at averillpark.net
> >>> Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
> >>> OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
> >>> Java - Web Applications - Search
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Historic mailing list
> >>> Historic at openstreetmap.org
> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Meyer
> > Global World History Atlas
> > www.gwhat.org
> > jeff at gwhat.org
> > 206-676-2347
> >
> > OpenStreetMap: Mapping with a Human Touch
> > osm: Open Historical Map (OHM) / my OSM user page
> > t: @GWHAThistory / @OpenHistMap
> > f: GWHAThistory
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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-- 
Tod Robbins
Digital Asset Manager, MLIS
todrobbins.com | @todrobbins <http://www.twitter.com/#!/todrobbins>
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