[OHM] JOSM extension suggestions

Wed Nov 6 22:06:48 UTC 2019

Hi all -

Richard Welty & I took a quick 30 minute call with a team from Critigen
<https://www.critigen.com/> today.

I described our primary use cases - simplifying getting set up, slippy
maps, validation rules, and point-in-time filtering.

They echoed Jerry's comments about how this might be done & that most of it
was fairly straightforward, the 1 exception being the time filter.

They also demonstrated some familiarity with how plugins fit into the JOSM
update / maintenance process and will make recommendations for how we might
go forward with keeping it up to date.

I believe we'll have a proposal of some sort to review in a week or so. My
hope is to continue to lean on Jerry's expertise, but if there are others
who'd like to help out, please let me know!

Thanks,
Jeff

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org> wrote:

> Jerry -
>
> The only thing better than this note would be to have you there. This is
> amazing input. The meeting will be far better with your thoughts. Can I
> thank you enough! Will send out meeting notes after.
>
> Thanks, Jeff
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019, 11:09 AM SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> I'm afraid I don't really know much more than that.
>>
>> I think it makes sense to go down the route of an "OHM Utils" plugin
>> using a small docking panel, with the view to incrementally extending
>> functionality. An alternative would be have an OHM menu, or in the best of
>> both worlds although both choices for the functionality,
>>
>> A few other thoughts:
>>
>>    -  An OHM validation CSS style would be a simpler way to provide some
>>    instant hint that start or end dates are missing. A fairly sophisticated
>>    one was the Irish Townlands which painted each set of boundaries a
>>    different colour, but just something which showed tagged objects without
>>    start date or end date in glaring technicolor would be a decent start. In
>>    general the in-built validator of Josm is dealing with geometrical issues,
>>    which are handled by code rather than some of the rule-based validation
>>    seen in iD, but it's 10 years since I looked at the code.
>>    -  A selector for tagged objects without start/end date (e.g., a
>>    button) and the option to then add the existing defaults (e.g. visible in
>>    the OHM panel). The predicate is something like "modified and tagged and
>>    not(start_date)" in the Search menu (not entirely sure about last bit as I
>>    often do these in sequence rather than a single statement).
>>    - Docking panel should show & allow selection of time range, whether
>>    as a slider or otherwise I don't mind. Does anyone use epoch at all? This
>>    may change if an object with different start & end points is chosen, or
>>    that perhaps should be shown separately.
>>    - More whacky: a clone this object in another time period tool.
>>
>> These suggest to me that useful things could be achieved without being
>> overly ambitious. I certainly feel that one needs to play with an interface
>> to get a feel for what works best: obviously existing work provides at
>> least some ideas.
>>
>> Not sure I can join you today as it's a little late for me these days.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 15:30, Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jerry -
>>>
>>> First of all, clearly, you know more about the JOSM extension world than
>>> I do. I just know it's tough to do edits with data from a bunch of time
>>> periods in the same area.
>>>
>>> Any chance you could help me guide these efforts? : )
>>>
>>> I haven't set up a time yet, but we could work around your schedule. If
>>> you could join us, that would be great!
>>>
>>> For your questions, see my current draft answers below & I'm open to
>>> correction / suggestions for any of them.
>>>
>>> Would you create a standalone OHM plugin?
>>> - I'm not sure. Do you mean "not an internal JOSM plugin?" What I had in
>>> mind was an OHM editing plugin that you could select from the Preferences
>>> panel and was assuming that was not a JOSM internal plugin. What do you
>>> suggest is the best approach.
>>>
>>> Would the code reside on GitHub? Josm still lives in SVN & the mirror
>>> Github repo is about 6 months out-of-date
>>> - I was aware that JOSM was in SVN and assumed that that would be the
>>> best place to keep it.
>>>
>>> Have you considered the JOSM Scripting
>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Scripting> plugin?
>>> This might be a way of achieving endpoint toggling w/o touching Jsom core.
>>> - I had not! I'll check into it. To be far, endpoint toggling is not the
>>> core interest!
>>>
>>> Validation has been in Josm core since 2013. What approach would you
>>> want to use for the validation/missing data flagging?
>>> - Again, this is new to me, but in looking, I'd think we'd want to host
>>> the rules on an external URL from the normal JOSM validator rules, as those
>>> are OSM specific. Then, maybe add the rules with the same scripting tool
>>> that flips the end point? Does that make sense?
>>>
>>> How would you plan maintenance? I'm always a bit flabbergasted how many
>>> plugins stop working when I spin up a version which is a few months old.
>>> - Great Q, and one that I'd need to discuss with the developers. My
>>> guess is this would be a model where we'd wait until it broke, call up the
>>> devs and ask for a fix. Not the greatest model, as it's "just too late"
>>> instead of "just in time," but also probably more reasonable from a cost
>>> perspective. Unless, of course, we had a JOSM-plugin-smart member of the
>>> community who could help with that maintenance...
>>>
>>> Any thoughts, suggestions? This whole idea is a blank slate right now.
>>> It'd be really great if you could join me on the call (and no additional
>>> duty beyond that... unless you want it! : ) )
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 3:29 AM SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>>
>>>> Just some general queries about how you plan to do this?
>>>>
>>>>    -  Would you create a standalone OHM plugin?
>>>>    -  Would the code reside on GitHub? Josm still lives in SVN & the
>>>>    mirror Github repo is about 6 months out-of-date
>>>>    -  Have you considered the JOSM Scripting
>>>>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Scripting>
>>>>    plugin? This might be a way of achieving endpoint toggling w/o touching
>>>>    Jsom core.
>>>>    -  Validation has been in Josm core since 2013. What approach would
>>>>    you want to use for the validation/missing data flagging?
>>>>    -  How would you plan maintenance? I'm always a bit flabbergasted
>>>>    how many plugins stop working when I spin up a version which is a few
>>>>    months old.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I'd be hesitant about anything which may require
>>>> integration/forking/… with Josm core. Largely because it's enormous and
>>>> changes frequently. Being hosted on SVN is also a downside.
>>>>
>>>> I'd probably like something which automatically adds start & end dates
>>>> as one creates data (or rather tags data, which is when a true historical
>>>> element is created). They'd need to be set by the user for an editing
>>>> session.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 at 23:12, Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all -
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking at getting some JOSM extension work done, talking with
>>>>> some developers next week & could use your input.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's what I have in mind so far, please let me know what else you'd
>>>>> suggest:
>>>>>
>>>>> So far, suggestions include:
>>>>> - Time-based filter / slider to make it easier to work on one point in
>>>>> time
>>>>> - Warnings for ways / relations missing key tags: start_date,
>>>>> end_date, license, source, attribution, etc.
>>>>> - Updated slippy map to point at OHM & not OSM
>>>>> - Toggle to change between OSM and OHM API endpoint
>>>>>
>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Jeff Meyer
>>>>> 206-676-2347
>>>>> osm: Open Historical Map (OHM)
>>>>> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map> / my OSM
>>>>> user page <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer>
>>>>> t: @OpenHistMap
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Historic mailing list
>>>>> Historic at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeff Meyer
>>> 206-676-2347
>>> osm: Open Historical Map (OHM)
>>> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map> / my OSM user
>>> page <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer>
>>> t: @OpenHistMap
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

-- 
Jeff Meyer
206-676-2347
osm: Open Historical Map (OHM)
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map> / my OSM user page
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer>
t: @OpenHistMap
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