[HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?

Jean-Guilhem Cailton jgc at arkemie.com
Fri Feb 3 00:28:10 GMT 2012

Le 03/02/2012 00:39, Martin Holmgren a écrit :
> Hi!
> Good luck at the meeting, it will be very interesting to hear the
> World Bank's reasons for choosing Google as partner over OSM. There
> must have been some analysis of the different options, right? I would
> imagine that being extra important for Aleem Walji, for the obvious
> risk of

> his past at Google.org <http://Google.org> affecting the decision process.

Can this be true?!?! This is really incredible!!! Then how can he even
be involved in this?

So it would not be only a matter of antitrust law...

(By the way, Wikipedia.fr has an interesting source. [1])

> So, please post what you have learned back to the list after the meeting.
>> Is that too much to ask Google? They don't take requests....
> Very true. But at the same time, my view is that Google rapidly are
> reaching a tipping point in the public eye, where the "Don't be evil"
> mantra is so watered down that they either will have to drop it (and
> lose some of its staff in the process, who are loyal to that
> principle) or start acting very differently in some areas. Using the
> crowd as free labor for improving its map offerings being one, privacy
> issues another.
> One way for Google to look better than they do right now would be to
> make the results of all purely crowdsourced efforts using GMM
> available under licensing conditions that are compatible with CC BY-SA
> and ODbL. Of course all proprietary data, including edits to such data
> in crowdsourcing efforts, need to be excluded from the data that is
> made more freely available.
> Best regards,
> Marty
>> PS Yes they have lawyers. But not ones that care about open data,
>> only about not getting sued. Clearly no one who knew any of this in
>> practice was consulted for the MoU. But yes, talking about open data
>> the concepts can be obscure ... I tried to illustrate the realities
>> with some mapping stories: http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/02/02/1756
>> PPS I don't think that's the root cause for the Bank (though it's
>> clearly something OSM needs to improve. note, I don't think GMM has
>> the best UI either). Rather, I think they are seduced by the
>> association with the most powerful company in the world, which is sexy.
>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* Chris Blow <cgblow at gmail.com <mailto:cgblow at gmail.com>>
>>     *To:* hot <hot at openstreetmap.org <mailto:hot at openstreetmap.org>>
>>     *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2012 5:12 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?
>>     Hi Mikel, 
>>     While there are several clear solutions that are unrealistic to
>>     propose in your meeting, I would just like to see a tool that
>>     allows users to to export data most of the data that they create
>>     in Google Maps.
>>     Is that too much to ask? I can see that a technical barrier would
>>     be an way to differentiate between original user data entry and
>>     modifications of existing data. If someone edits a big
>>     interchange with a 5 year history of 99% proprietary edits,
>>     Google isn't going to give that data back. But if you are mapping
>>     completely new roads and POIs in the developing world ... you
>>     should be able to do a significant export.
>>     PS I don't understand how the WB got itself into this, aren't
>>     they all lawyers? How can OSM make it clearer that there is a
>>     cost to using proprietary data? It has a toxic touch.
>>     PPS it seems like better UX and design at OSM could be the root
>>     cause of them working with Google in the first place — does this
>>     seem accurate? Or are there deeper
>>     architectural/technical/business reasons that WB is going with
>>     Google?
>>     c
>>     On Feb 2, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:
>>>     They're talking about me. Don't get too excited. I'll probably
>>>     have a lot more to say soon. Would love to hear some feedback ...
>>>     * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         *From:* Iván Sánchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es
>>>         <mailto:ivan at sanchezortega.es>>
>>>         *To:* hot at openstreetmap.org <mailto:hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>>         *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2012 1:37 PM
>>>         *Subject:* [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?
>>>         Hi all,
>>>         A news item got my attention a few minutes ago:
>>>         http://techpresident.com/news/21709/google-world-bank-deal-ask-too-much-crowd
>>>         Quote:
>>>         «Aleem Walji, practice manager of the World Bank's
>>>         innovation practice, said
>>>         Thursday that he would be sitting down with people from
>>>         [...] the open-source
>>>         mapping group OpenStreetMap to discuss a partnership between
>>>         the bank and
>>>         Google that would see the search giant's Google Map Maker
>>>         tool put to use in
>>>         developing countries.»
>>>         I'm wondering if they refer to someone from the OSM
>>>         Foundation, or someone
>>>         from HOT. I'd love to see some feedback regarding this issue
>>>         over this
>>>         mailing list.
>>>         Best,
>>>         -- 
>>>         Iván Sánchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es
>>>         <mailto:ivan at sanchezortega.es>> <ivan at geonerd.org
>>>         <mailto:ivan at geonerd.org>>
>>>         Here I come when I better go
>>>         I say yes when I ought to say no
>>>                                                         --
>>>         Dragonnette, I come around
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[1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption#Formes
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