[HOT] Pakistan Anti-Mapping Legislation: Implications for HOT/OSM

Roxroy Bollers rkbollers at gmail.com
Wed Nov 28 16:28:06 GMT 2012


Alex I understand your frustration about that law...however, Toby has a
good point. The problem is who, how and when can this be implemented so all
our rear end no matter where we are is covered - less you, me the OSM group
be imprisoned.


On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Toby Murray <toby.murray at gmail.com> wrote:

> While I agree that this is complete BS, would it be possible for a
> local OSM chapter organization to register with the SoP and thereby
> cover OSM members in Pakistan? This might require keeping an official
> list of members and getting new mappers to add their name to the list
> which isn't really cool... but maybe better than no maps at all?
>
> Toby
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Alex Barth <alex at mapbox.com> wrote:
> > "The proposed Bill will require all government or private agencies
> involved in surveying and mapping to register themselves with the SoP.
> Failing to do so will result in one-year imprisonment and a fine of up to
> one million rupees."
> >
> >
> > This is fucked up. The national security argument is completely futile.
> I think this law would really hurt OpenStreetMap, essentially making every
> mapper on the ground a criminal unless they register with a gov agency
> (yeah, right) and it completely hampers geo-based IT innovation like Faisal
> said.
> >
> > What can we do about this?
> >
> > On Nov 26, 2012, at 1:31 AM, Faisal Chohan <faisal at cogilent.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On a general terms:
> >>
> >> 1. Laws are never implemented on powerful persons or entities in
> Pakistan. Laws are for general public and implemented on them harshly. And
> when an ordinary person gets into these cases there is no way out. It
> destroys all of his/her life and career.
> >>
> >> Specific to the mapping. I am not a lawyer but this is my observation,
> >>
> >> 1. The local laws do not affect the people living out-side Pakistan,
> unless they do not enter in Pakistan. e.g in one instance a case is
> registered against facebook founder, but it does not mean anything for the
> facebook founder. The only problem with the case is that the facebook
> founder cannot enter in Pakistan without clearing from this case.
> >>
> >> This directly harms the Pakistani IT community and people. As Facebook
> will never build a physical office in Pakistan due to this case. The
> powerful and rich people will have their children studying in US and then
> get access to the employment in companies like facebook but a general
> person will not.
> >>
> >> The only problem with international projects like openstreetmap is that
> most of the implementations are carried out by local people. And once they
> cannot be involved into these projects, there seems distant possibility of
> any substantial projects initiated or completed.
> >>
> >> 2. We were doing on-ground mapping in Pakistan especially our TED prize
> winner project "SaafPindi". After reading this news we have stopped on
> ground mapping and are not updating open street map from Friday on-wards.
>  We are just pondering different options.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Faisal Chohan
> >>
> >> TED Senior Fellow | www.ted.com/fellows
> >> Disaster and open data mapper | www.pakreport.org
> >> Co-Founder | www.BrightSpyre.com
> >> Co-Founder | www.cogilent.com
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Mobile: +1 415 692 7920
> >> Twitter: @faisalchohan
> >> Skype: faisalchohan
> >> Personal Blog: http://faisalchohan.blogspot.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com>
> wrote:
> >> Hi Mark,
> >>
> >> I think it depends. If we were going to start a project in Pakistan
> >> physically on the ground it is a huge deal. Remote activations it
> >> probably isn't a huge issue for us specifically, though I wonder about
> >> people on the ground using the data. Would it be an issue if they were
> >> not mapping, but just using unofficial map sources.
> >>
> >> There are some similar sounding laws in Indonesia, but the
> >> implementation has been really different. For example 2 years ago a
> >> law was passed that in summary says if you distribute inaccurate data
> >> you will pay a big fine or do jail time. We are working closely with
> >> Badan Informasi Geospasial (the NMA) on this however. The law is a lot
> >> less scary in implementation in our case than when it first come out.
> >>
> >> Can't say that Pakistan will do the same, but it is one of those
> >> things where I'm not sure what we can do other than wait and see.
> >>
> >> -Kate
> >>
> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Mark Iliffe <mark at markiliffe.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >> > Hi All,
> >> >
> >> > I've just seen this through Twitter, it may be of relevance to those
> mapping
> >> > in/near Pakistan. The short version is thus; it seems that Pakistan is
> >> > legislating against mapping which ins't conducted by the national
> mapping
> >> > agency.
> >> >
> >> > http://dawn.com/2012/11/21/pakistanis-lost-without-maps/
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> >
> >> > Mark
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> > HOT at openstreetmap.org
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> >> >
> >>
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> >
> > Alex Barth
> > http://twitter.com/lxbarth
> > tel (+1) 202 250 3633
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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