[HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?

Sander Deryckere sanderd17 at gmail.com
Tue Nov 4 09:03:26 UTC 2014


@Pat tressel, for every object, you can query the history, so all
changesets that changed it, and the tags on those changesets.

So you can certainly query which sources were used to create an element if
all authors mentioned their sources.

@Andy Anderson, in iD, you cannot chose your own changeset tags. A
changeset tag is not a tag on an object. But iD adds some changeset tags by
default, like imagery_used=* and created_by=iD.

changeset tags were introduced to make the database smaller, before those,
almost all elements had tags on them like created_by=JOSM,
created_by=Merkaartor, ... which wasn't useful at all, it's more useful to
know which change came from which editor. So now, editors like JOSM
automatically delete those "created_by" tags when you modify an object, but
they do put a "created_by" tag on the changeset.

JOSM doesn't (yet) delete source=* tags, because it's still used by too
many people, and might contain more valuable information.

2014-11-04 9:36 GMT+01:00 Dan S <danstowell+osm at gmail.com>:

> Andy - "imagery_used" is automatically added by iD, every time. You
> won't see it as a tag you can add, it's added automatically to the
> changeset.
>
> 2014-11-03 23:45 GMT+00:00 Andy Anderson <aanderson at amherst.edu>:
> > Hi, Pat,
> >
> > Looking at OSM using the iD editor, when I type in “image” the only
> relevant
> > tags that pop up are “image”,  “source:imagery”, and
> “source_type_imagery”;
> > “imagery_used” is not an option, I have to type it in explicitly. Does
> this
> > mean it’s not a very commonly used tag (?).
> >
> > It would be much better if this were automatic, in any case. Even with
> the
> > easy-to-use Source button present, it’s a bit of a bother; it would be
> even
> > more so if this type has to be typed or menued in every time.
> Theoretically
> > one could switch background imagery even in the middle of an edit, which
> > might warrant multiple tags, but that would probably be rare.
> >
> > — Andy
> >
> > On Nov 3, 2014, at 6:21 PM, Pat Tressel <ptressel at myuw.net> wrote:
> >
> > There was another thread relating to this a short while ago, so there's
> more
> > relevant discussion there.
> >
> > Two notes:
> >
> > The source tag can hold other info besides imagery, e.g. it could tell
> who
> > or what agency provided some item of information.  The iD imagery_used
> tag
> > is more specific.  But historically, source has been used for imagery
> too.
> >
> > With respect to whether the source / imagery_used tag should go on
> features
> > or changeset:  I raised this question at the end of the previous thread
> on
> > this subject.  We don't want to lose the fact that something was traced
> with
> > use of a particular set of imagery if someone edits a feature.  Let's
> take
> > one specific case:  Say that someone enters a feature (say it's one
> point,
> > just to be clear) using one set of imagery, and the imagery_used tag gets
> > assigned to the changeset.  If someone later shifts that point, while
> using
> > a different set of imagery, is it still possible to get back to the
> original
> > changeset from the modified point?
> >
> > -- Pat
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Ray Kiddy <ray at ganymede.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:51:52 +0100
> >> Sander Deryckere <sanderd17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It's more logical to put it on the changeset.
> >> >
> >> > Like when you draw a building, and add source=bing. But then someone
> >> > who lives there gives it a name, and forgets to alter the source, the
> >> > object has data that can't be derived from the source. So it's in
> >> > fact your edit operation that has a source, not the object itself.
> >>
> >> I had wondered about this when I saw multiple source values on an
> >> object. I mean, which other attributes came from which source?
> >> Technically the source should map to the subset of the attributes that
> >> were observed from that source, but in real life, I would have no idea
> >> how that could be presented in a way anyone would understand.
> >>
> >> > As such, source=Bing is by many mappers preferred on the changeset
> >> > (also because it keeps the database a bit smaller).
> >>
> >> > When you edit with JOSM, you can add the source manually as a tag to
> >> > the changeset (which is handy if your source is a survey or offline
> >> > source). In iD, it automatically logs the imagery used in the
> >> > changeset, but you don't get an option to give other sources (which
> >> > is why many people still put a source on the objects).
> >>
> >> So I understand this to mean that if you are putting in an object from
> >> the imagery in front of you, you do not need to do anything else. I am
> >> not seeing that iD is attaching this anywhere but I may not be looking
> >> in the right place. But as long as the database sees it, I do not need
> >> to.
> >>
> >> Take away point, I do not need to set the source 100 times and I am
> >> good with that.
> >>
> >> cheers - ray
> >>
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Sander
> >> >
> >> > 2014-11-03 19:41 GMT+01:00 Ray Kiddy <ray at ganymede.org>:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > Hello -
> >> > >
> >> > > This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT
> >> > > tasks.
> >> > >
> >> > > As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding
> >> > > something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every
> >> > > road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I
> >> > > bother with this?
> >> > >
> >> > > I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could
> >> > > also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it
> >> > > to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times?
> >> > >
> >> > > If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every object,
> >> > > that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at
> >> > > all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source
> >> > > value.
> >> > >
> >> > > So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every
> >> > > time? What is the level of diligence expected here?
> >> > >
> >> > > thanx - ray
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
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> >> > >
> >>
> >>
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