[HOT] Validation

Sun Aug 30 15:31:21 UTC 2015

'Start mapping' and 'end mapping' clearly communicates without the need for 
further explanation. The words can be stacked on the button for even more 
clarity. Good visual and written description that's clear and concise. How 
does this get implimated? What are the next steps?

Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.

On August 30, 2015 5:21:12 AM Martin Dittus <martin at dekstop.de> wrote:

> A further consideration: the terms should express a sense of _why_ we’re 
> asking people to press these buttons. The technical “check in/out” hints at 
> this, although it is likely not universally understood, and might not 
> easily translate.
>
> Do we explain our coordination workflow anywhere? If we have some 
> confidence that people have seen that explanation before they are asked to 
> “start”, then button labelling will become more straightforward. There’s 
> less burden on the button to explain a fundamental workflow in 2-3 words.
>
> It could be as simple as adding a sentence above the buttons.
>
> Although 2-3 words that label the button *and* explain the process at the 
> same time would of course be the most elegant option :)
>
> m.
>
>
>> On 30 Aug 2015, at 12:06, Pierre GIRAUD <pierre.giraud at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Also please remember that the tool is translated in other languages.
>> On my side, I don't know how to translate "check in/out" in french. It
>> depends on the situation. When I'm at the airport checking in
>> luggages, or at a hotel checking in to get my room's keys, I won't use
>> the same words.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:52 AM, john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> check in /out might be considered a regional dialect, you have to consider
>>> the audience and their level of English, I think keep it as simple and as
>>> clear as possible.
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> On 29 August 2015 at 20:15, Denis Carriere <carriere.denis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm liking "check in" & "check out", I feel terminology is more commonly
>>>> used.
>>>>
>>>> Also ethically the words "start work" doesn't look as good as button vs.
>>>> "check in".
>>>>
>>>> My personal opinion, +1 on "check in" & "check out"
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~
>>>> Denis Carriere
>>>> GIS Project Manager
>>>> Twitter: @DenisCarriere
>>>> OSM: DenisCarriere
>>>> Email: Carriere.Denis at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Suzan Reed <suzan at suzanreed.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Would 'start work' and 'stop work' be clear to all people?
>>>>>
>>>>> Suzan
>>>>> Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On August 29, 2015 11:46:55 AM Jarmo Kivekäs <jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There has been some related discussion in a github issue[1] about this
>>>>>> last October.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I rather like the "Stop working on task" alternative that is suggested
>>>>>> instead of the "Unlock" button in that issue. Especially since currently
>>>>>> the button to lock a task says "Start mapping". There is more obvious
>>>>>> connection between start/stop than start/unlock.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Checking in and checking out content is probably a strange concept to
>>>>>> many. I don't think it's an improvement over locking and unlocking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Submit for review" is a definitive improvement over "Mark as done". It
>>>>>> should be implemented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've played around a little and made the changes I like the best in a
>>>>>> local copy of the tasking manager (screenshot in attachment). I'll
>>>>>> implement the changes and make a pull request if we come to an
>>>>>> agreement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- jarmo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/401
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 29.08.2015 05:22, Jim Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like the idea of renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit for
>>>>>>> review'. Little tweaks like that can bring clarity to those starting out.
>>>>>>> Also Suzan suggested that the “lock” “unlock” function be renamed to “Check
>>>>>>> out” and “check in". That would make a big difference as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't want to be too overenthusiastic  but is there any reason not to
>>>>>>> make those two improvements? If no objection, can they be done soon?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Martin Dittus [mailto:martin at dekstop.de]
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:44 AM
>>>>>>> To: David Toy <d at vidtoy.co.uk>
>>>>>>> Cc: hot <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [HOT] Validation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m
>>>>>>> starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers.
>>>>>>> Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an
>>>>>>> expert — it could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels.
>>>>>>> A second pair of eyes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second
>>>>>>> opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> m.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy <d at vidtoy.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's -
>>>>>>>> and I can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect
>>>>>>>> that there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to
>>>>>>>> 'submit for review'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me
>>>>>>>> initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review'
>>>>>>>> implies that:
>>>>>>>> - a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch
>>>>>>>> it, and
>>>>>>>> - b) I should expect feedback
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens
>>>>>>>> the blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four
>>>>>>>> words of explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I
>>>>>>>> understand the time pressure.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are
>>>>>>>> useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new
>>>>>>>> ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs <jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still
>>>>>>>> fairly new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to
>>>>>>>> the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as
>>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>>> Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the
>>>>>>>> past.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own
>>>>>>>> (I haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on
>>>>>>>> a mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone
>>>>>>>> advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually
>>>>>>>> left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure
>>>>>>>> about, mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new
>>>>>>>> mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of
>>>>>>>> your mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting
>>>>>>>> notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on
>>>>>>>> would be nice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the
>>>>>>>> activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not
>>>>>>>> marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making
>>>>>>>> any changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for
>>>>>>>> the task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users
>>>>>>>> in the past. "They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing
>>>>>>>> something." I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem,
>>>>>>>> since I'll just be one more user on the list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map
>>>>>>>> it completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will
>>>>>>>> result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated,
>>>>>>>> but no tiles are actually being finished.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Jarmo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger "I've done
>>>>>>>>>> some work but not completed the tile could someone review it please."  I'd
>>>>>>>>>> rather catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident enough
>>>>>>>>>> to mark a tile complete.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well
>>>>>>>>> worthwhile. This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors never
>>>>>>>>> mark their first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> m.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>  | Pierre GIRAUD
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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