[HOT] Gentle grump
Nick Allen
nick.allen.54 at gmail.com
Sat Mar 7 21:15:47 UTC 2015
John,
Thanks for that - you've got some very good ideas there.
I've created issue https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/334
for learnOSM so we don't lose it & can incorporate when we get the chance.
Thanks again.
Nick
On 07/03/15 12:02, john whelan wrote:
> Thank you for testing it.
>
> The grab handle needs to be added, press and hold the right mouse
> button then move the mouse.
>
> From the mapper's point of view the building tool is very nice as you
> say, marking the settlements then tagging them all once is much faster
> so you feel as if you are accomplishing more.
>
> From the maps point of view we get less wasted effort and we get a
> cleaner map. I've changed hundreds if not thousands of area=yes to
> building=yes tags, JOSM will tell you if two highways are almost
> touching, this is important for routing. It will spot duplicate
> buildings, and I've seen a number of these, sometimes both have the
> same author on them.
>
> Perhaps someone could add/incorporate this idiot guide to the learn
> OSM page? It would need to be extended to include the grab handle.
>
> Thanks
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 7 March 2015 at 02:41, Ray Kiddy <ray at ganymede.org
> <mailto:ray at ganymede.org>> wrote:
>
>
> John -
>
> Wow. That was actually an amazing help.
>
> I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone
> doing it the first time without this level of detail.
>
> I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like
> what we
> have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to
> JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes
> sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a "grab"
> tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps.
>
> And your "hit-update-but-dont" workflow is brilliant, but the fact
> that
> it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way.... Well, it
> suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see.
>
> I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get
> where I need to go.
>
> It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is
> fantastic.
>
> Well, onward and upward.
>
> - ray
>
>
> On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500
> john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > Right the basic idiot guide.
> >
> > First write down your OSM userid and password.
> >
> > For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings.
> > Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we
> > like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential.
> >
> > Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the
> > bottom.
> >
> > We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to
> > map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the
> > left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest.
> >
> > Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button.
> > Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical
> > order, click it and ignore the rest.
> >
> > go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917
> >
> > Read the instructions.
> >
> > Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM.
> >
> > Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM
> > map for the tile.
> >
> > We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File,
> Edit etc
> > until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so
> select
> > Bing.
> >
> > Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly
> > under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes.
> > Hover the mouse over them to display the tags.
> >
> > Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90
> > meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right
> > corner and use <Crtl><down arrow> to scan the image.
> >
> > The following is not the official way to do things but its
> fast. Draw
> > round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to
> > find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag
> > it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road.
> Stick
> > to one type of highway omit the others for the moment.
> >
> > The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools.
> >
> > When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On
> > the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation
> > Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged
> > ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them.
> >
> > In tags Add landuse=residential to them all.
> >
> > Click the upload button once more, again you'll get a warning this
> > time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways, select these as a
> > group.
> >
> > In tags Edit and change the tag to highway=unclassified.
> >
> > Now upload. You may need your OSM userid and password at this
> point.
> >
> > You'll notice that JOSM already has the source of the image
> filled in
> > and the HOT tile etc.
> >
> > Now go back and look for highway=tracks. Again don't tag until JOSM
> > warns you on uploading then tag them all at once.
> >
> > For rectangle buildings press b for the building plug-in, now
> find the
> > longest side and mouse click one corner, follow the edge to the next
> > corner then click again, now drag the mouse to the other side. Click
> > once more and the building is done and correctly tagged for HOT.
> >
> > There is a lot more to JOSM but this guide's objective is to get you
> > going productively quickly.
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6 March 2015 at 15:07, Ray Kiddy <ray at ganymede.org
> <mailto:ray at ganymede.org>> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 15:12:21 -0500
> > > john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
> <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Just for the heck of it I ran JOSM validation on a tile I was
> > > > mapping before touching it. It turned up duplicate buildings,
> > > > crossed buildings, lots of highways separated by a few
> inches etc.
> > > >
> > > > Do we need an idiot guide? A sort of this is how to provide the
> > > > maximum benefit for the least effort.
> > >
> > > Speaking as an idiot, I would say that the answer to this is yes.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you think I jest....
> > >
> > > > Mine would probably run along the lines of for Africa the
> > > > convention is only the following values of highways are used for
> > > > minor highways: path, track, unclassified, use highway=road if
> > > > you are uncertain. Someone will probably have tagged the
> > > > secondary and primary highways.
> > > > <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsecondary> If
> > > > possible use JOSM especially for buildings. Please map
> buildings
> > > > as building=yes do not assume it is a house.
> > >
> > > As a 2-3 times per week mapper (who wishes I could do more),
> it can
> > > get frustrating. Lots of projects point to the Africa roads page
> > > but that page is hard to interpret for any particular context.
> > > There is a lot of information.
> > >
> > > And I hate to say it but I use ID and it drives me nuts. This
> may be
> > > from browser/js/platform issues. I am using Firefox 36.0 on Ubuntu
> > > 14.04 LTS. But I have looked at JOSM and it is somewhat
> bewildering
> > > and I have no idea how long it would take to get over the first
> > > humps of the learning curve. For now, my annoyances with ID are
> > > tolerable.
> > >
> > > If one was able to look at a task and see what tags where
> being used
> > > and how often within just that task, this might help the "African
> > > roads" situation.
> > >
> > > > People use maps to get from one place to another, if the
> highways
> > > > are joined up then routing software such as comes as part of
> > > > OSMAND can be used. Look for highways around settlements that
> > > > connect to other settlements.
> > > >
> > > > <Crtl><arrow> in JOSM will navigate vertically or horizontally
> > > > making scanning easier.
> > >
> > > I should see if there is a cheat sheet for JOSM. It would be
> nice to
> > > know what control-shift-elbox-J does and all that. Of course,
> these
> > > may be platform specific (eg Windows keys vs Linux keys vs MacOS X
> > > keys).
> > >
> > > > I assume that most of these errors have crept in because JOSM
> > > > validation was not used. I suspect that the immediate feedback
> > > > from JOSM might assist our less skilled mappers to improve their
> > > > skills.
> > > >
> > > > Cheerio John
> > >
> > > There needs to be validation on input and obviously both ID and
> > > JOSM do some, but can validation be done on the server? This would
> > > be better, especially if the results can be communicated to users.
> > > A HOT task could have a "Validations" tab. I, for one, would like
> > > to see the things that have been already fixed in data in that
> > > task. It would let me know when there are things not to do. If
> I am
> > > going to make a mistake within a task's maps, it is at least a bit
> > > likely that others will make or have made similar mistakes in the
> > > same context.
> > >
> > > Again, seeing the phrase "JOSM might assist our less skilled
> > > mappers", I have to wonder what you are thinking about here. Any
> > > sentence with both "JOSM" and "less skilled mappers" in it is
> going
> > > to lead to bad things. JOSM might be easier than it is, but I am
> > > not even very sure of that. Sometimes complex tasks require
> complex
> > > tools. One just hopes that there are options between the
> > > "very-simple-but-also-brain-dead" tool and the
> > > "amazingly-powerful-but-shockingly-unintuitive" tool. I am not
> > > saying that this is what JSOM and ID are, but hopefully you see my
> > > point.
> > >
> > > So, grump back at ya. :-)
> > >
> > > cheers - ray
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > HOT mailing list
> > > HOT at openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT at openstreetmap.org>
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> > >
>
>
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--
Nick
Volunteer 'Tallguy' for
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy
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