[HOT] Issue with Harare project - 1649
Martin Noblecourt
m_noblecourt at cartong.org
Fri Mar 11 08:47:23 UTC 2016
Dear all,
Thanks for your various answers!
I will use Martin D's order of items:
1) Thanks Russ for the tip, we'll do this + improve the instructions to
make to try to maximize the quality of contributions on this project
2) Is an interesting topic. So far I have read a tutorial on how to
create tasks on the TM, however a more comprehensive documentation on
what to put in instructions to improve the quality of contribution would
certainly be interesting. Then to me the key is the coordination between
the project manager and the validators on the project... This is a
workflow we are intending to work on but haven't really had time for so far.
3) As you said it is not really my concern, I just pushed the issue to
the community to inform & get guidance.
Personally I'm not in favor of blocking users (or really as a
last-resort solution), there are many mediation ways to explore before.
If a HOT organiser wants to get in touch with this contributor that
would be great, since he hasn't been receptive to our (polite)
explanations, just to make sure that it will not happen again.
(and my message to the "OSM community" was a lapsus, I meant "HOT
community", since this is rather an HOT issue than general OSM issue in
my opinion - not a "conflict" for the Data WG since the debate was not
really on the OSM data but the use of the TM)
Thanks again to all & best regards
Martin
On 11/03/2016 02:36, Mikel Maron wrote:
> Worth looking at how the OSM Foundation Data Working Group manages
> vandalism and disputes for ideas on how to govern rare disruptive
> behavior like this
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism#Governance.
> -Mikel
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>
> On Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:02 PM, Nicholas Doiron
> <nickd at codeforamerica.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > can project owners currently block certain users from using the
> Tasking Manager? Would it make sense to do so?
> This feature will be necessary at some point if not already. We
> all believe in good intentions, and the success of Task Manager
> means that good intentions is a good starting point. But looking
> forward, it's better to have the feature ready than to find
> someone sabotaging Task Manager during a natural disaster or a
> pilot by a new partner org.
> This feature doesn't block users from editing OSM or reverting
> changesets, so I think it's ethical within the OSM world.
> -- Nick Doiron
> On Mar 10, 2016 8:37 AM, "Martin Dittus" <martin at dekstop.de
> <mailto:martin at dekstop.de>> wrote:
>
>
> It seems to me there are really three separate concerns here.
>
> 1. Resuming Martin’s project. Russ addresses this.
>
>
> 2. OSM data quality discussions around HOT newcomers. That’s a
> big topic and an ongoing discussion, and is maybe best
> discussed in the places Russ mentions. Any such incident is
> probably best be referred to such a forum, however HOT members
> should be active participants in such discussions, so Martin
> please share links if you post to one of the OSM lists.
>
> It may also be a good time to review data quality concerns
> that have been raised, and find some kind of consensus
> approach to dealing with them. For example a “best practices”
> doc for HOT coordinators (which may already exist). This will
> then help have such a discussion.
>
>
> 3. Dealing with uncooperative contributors. Without knowing
> the details, it seems to me that this individual has decided
> to take matters in their own hand and disrupt an existing
> process. While their intentions may come from a good place,
> their acts are hardly constructive. I'm concerned that this
> issue might not simply go away. Furthermore, it may also spill
> over into other projects.
>
> As a community member I think this action was transgressive to
> a point where it warrants a slightly more formal response; for
> example a polite email by a HOT organiser with an invitation
> for dialogue, and a request to stop. I also don’t think Martin
> should be tasked to deal with the issue by himself; it seems
> he hardly caused the conflict, he merely happened to
> coordinate the project, which is one among many.
>
> An idle thought — can project owners currently block certain
> users from using the Tasking Manager? Would it make sense to
> do so? Such a block would be easily bypassed, and might stoke
> the flames rather than stop the issue.
>
> (Martin, you’re welcome to contact me off-list if you want
> support for any of this, however I should also say I’m not
> formally a HOT member.)
>
> m.
>
>
>
> > On 10 Mar 2016, at 15:20, Russell Deffner
> <russell.deffner at hotosm.org
> <mailto:russell.deffner at hotosm.org>> wrote:
> >
> > P.S. Martin,
> >
> > The Activation WG does not handle 'edit conflicts' or really
> any conflicts as we have plenty of those internally for
> coordinating HOT stuff. You also started with 'Dear OSM
> community' - just to clarify - this list is the 'HOT
> community'; to address the larger/general OSM community you
> would want to email talk at openstreetmap.org
> <mailto:talk at openstreetmap.org> - and if you do need
> 'intervention' with another mapper, that's the OSMF Data WG
> (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_working_group)
> >
> > Happy Mapping! (let me know if you need help
> 'resetting'/invalidating all tiles in 1649)
> > =Russ
> >
> > Russell Deffner
> > Russell.Deffner at hotosm.org <mailto:Russell.Deffner at hotosm.org>
> > Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
> > http://hotosm.org <http://hotosm.org/>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Russell Deffner [mailto:Russell.Deffner at hotosm.org
> <mailto:Russell.Deffner at hotosm.org>]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:04 AM
> > To: 'Martin Noblecourt'; 'hot at openstreetmap.org
> <mailto:hot at openstreetmap.org>'
> > Subject: RE: [HOT] Issue with Harare project - 1649
> >
> > Hi, Just a quick note - you can now 'invalidate all tiles'
> from the misc tab as a Project Manager; so no need to re-create.
> >
> > Also this user http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rab -
> although they have a long OSM history, I wouldn't call them
> 'expert' as they still don't use changeset comments correctly
> after 8 years :)
> >
> > =Russ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Noblecourt [mailto:m_noblecourt at cartong.org
> <mailto:m_noblecourt at cartong.org>]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:51 AM
> > To: hot at openstreetmap.org <mailto:hot at openstreetmap.org>
> > Subject: [HOT] Issue with Harare project - 1649
> >
> > Dear OSM community,
> >
> > I'd like to get your feedback about what happened on the
> following
> > project: http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1649
> >
> > This project have been marked as completely done by one
> single mapper
> > without tracing, under the argument new mappers would damage
> existing
> > data. The area is indeed already well mapped but also a lot
> of data is
> > still missing (including rivers, roads and buildings) and it
> is pretty
> > easy to trace so I doubt the project will damage the area
> (unless
> > contribution to OSM is now reserved to "experts").
> > Another argument we received was that some of our previous
> Missing maps
> > projects (such as 1465/1466) were a "complete quality
> disaster"...
> > Although still unfinished and requiring an important work of
> validation
> > (like all TM projects...), we strongly disagree that these
> projects were
> > a disaster: they allowed mapping large areas that weren't mapped
> > previously at all - which is in fact the goal of Missing Maps...
> > The road network in particular still requires work of
> > standardization/clean up, but this is quite common on TM
> activities too
> > (getting mappers, whether they are new ones or experienced
> but not used
> > to the African context, to properly tag roads, is a long-term
> > challenge). Starting from scratch mapping of an area is as
> everyone know
> > a work that often requires several steps.
> >
> > We intend to recreate the same project on the TM as it will
> be a waste
> > of time to invalidate all the tiles again, please let us
> know if you
> > don't think it is the appropriate way.
> > Feedback are of course most welcome on the tasks created by
> Missing
> > maps, we have in fact already had very interesting
> conversation with
> > great validators and will be happy to hear from more people
> as long as
> > it is respectful of everyone :-)
> > (I someone thinks this message should to be forwarded to the
> Activation
> > working group too, please do so since I'm not on it)
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback,
> >
> > Martin & Violaine for the CartONG team
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > HOT at openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT at openstreetmap.org>
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >
> >
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>
>
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