<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">Agree with the general gist of what Fred outlines.<br><br>Note that nothing in the OSM API would prevent automated or semi-automated methods from contributing to OpenStreetMap. It's open for experimentation, and if we found it effective, then great. But for the time being though, I see the "traditional" OSM approach as working best :)<br><div> </div>== Mikel Maron ==<br>+254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br><span><a target="_blank" href="http://mapkibera.org/">http://mapkibera.org/</a></span><br><span><a target="_blank" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti</a></span><div><br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;
font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Fred <fmoine@hotmail.fr><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> hot@openstreetmap.org<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sat, September 11, 2010 4:05:15 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [HOT] Haiti 2010<br></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US">In reply to sam
larsen mail and from my experiences at Unosat (rapid mapping)
and Keyobs
(project development, mining extract building with satellite
imagery, Kibera,
Somalia). <span style="background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><br>
<br>
</span>As part of the emergency: </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; font-size: 12pt; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;" lang="EN-US"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US">We must
reduce the processing time or find other partners who have
capabilities to
provide images correctly georeferenced. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US">For now, there
are very few suppliers provide use (except in exeptionnal case
such as in
Haiti). <span style="background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><br>
</span>So in general we do what we can to georeference images
rapidly to
realize extractions (of floods, destruction, road...) <br>
So it means that we have access to the imagery and got some
specialist to work
with.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US"><span style=""> </span>So
the ideal is to have strong relationship
with the supplier or other team.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US"><br>
After manual extraction or semi automatic topics: <br>
<br>
To extract manually <span style=""> </span>information of
roads,
settlements, damage building, IDP is still a valid method . <span style="background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><br>
</span>For several reasons: <span style="background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><br>
</span>1 - Semi-automatic extraction ask a strong expertise and
need to be cleaned.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US">In the final
geometries of heterogeneous objects which remains difficult to
read the
information or calculated surface or accuracy problems centroid
(as in houses,
we need to catch the centroid). <br>
2 - Then there is a question of time, we should be releasing
information
quickly. So the more you have information on the area and better
priorities
will be set up. <br>
<br>
<br>
In practice, <span style=""> </span>remote sensing software
need to be improve to extract information correctly from imagery
for
humanitarian field of operation . As all the software and Remote
Sensing
algorithm have been designed for developing countries. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US">Only
recently algorithm has been refined and <span style=""> </span>look
accelerating to deal with automatic
extraction. <br>
<br>
However it is clear that we should use the fastest techniques
and adapted them to
the field. <br>
For humanitarian, manual digitizing is still important to
respond quickly to a
need. <br>
<br>
And so we use the automatic extraction to retrieve information
from the image
and then you end by hand. <br>
<br>
Example <span style=""> </span>Haiti 2010: 200 000
digitalization
point damage building. Unosat was in partnership with SWISS TOPO
(National Geo…).
And we did not use <span style=""> </span>Remote Sensing for
the extraction (very bad result and no time to improve it). <br>
And impossible to recover the roads in this complex area urban.
<br>
<br>
Gaza: Land cover and damage building, semi extraction( software
E-cognition).
It is true that we could recover the roads, but it was quicker
to do it by
hand. <br>
<br>
Sri Lanka: IDP movement, 65% semi-automatic method (pretty
clean) and the rest
by hand. <br>
<br>
Kibera: Semi Automatic method and we finished by hand.<br>
Besides, as many cities in Africa are the pixel values are
mixed. There is a
lot too clean. <br>
<br>
OSM would have to launch a cleaning roads with their volunteers
if they are to
distinguish houses to the road </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Wingdings;" lang="EN-US"><span style="">J</span></span><span style="background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; font-size: 12pt; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;" lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US">At <span style=""> </span>the
end, it's very frustrating to have student
years to finally extract the information by hand. <span style="background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><br>
<br>
</span>But when it's information are crucial to crisis
management we should not
hesitate a moment. <span style="background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><br>
<br>
</span>For the case of OSM, as you are dependent of imagery (so
the body of
crisis management). We must join with other partners who have
the means. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US">And give the
soul and symbol of social mapping. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;" lang="EN-US">For
the crisis mapping seminar :<br>
After having participated in Haiti alongside with HOT, these
activities has
given a windows to the people to be involve in this crisis and is
it the most
important.<br>
If you look at the humanitarian action today, the population is no
longer involved.
Neither in short-term and a little in a long term (proposal phase,
meeting
phase, etc…).<br>
The question is how we let people speak and not only the
consultant, the UN
agency for their country.<br>
<br>
A + fred all the best from Pakistan<br>
</span>
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