<div>So,</div><div><br></div><div>I am doing remote mapping in areas (Mogadishu) that are more or less clearly visible on Bing maps (yahoo is not working for me, don't know why). I'll continue filling up gaps there as I have some time everyday to do it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Unfortunately my tech skills are not that advanced to clean up data via GRASS etc, but I could do some imports if there is a data that can be cleaned and uploaded via JOSM Potlatch 2.</div><div><br></div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 3:00 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hot-request@openstreetmap.org">hot-request@openstreetmap.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: [Imports] Update: Somalia places imported; roads up next<br>
(Kate Chapman)<br>
2. Re: Volunteer with JOSM experience needed for Somalia admin<br>
boundary import (andrzej zaborowski)<br>
3. Help New People to Edit Somalia (Kate Chapman)<br>
4. Re: Help New People to Edit Somalia (Eugene Usvitsky)<br>
5. Status of Somalia roads import (Schuyler Erle)<br>
6. Re: Status of Somalia roads import (Schuyler Erle)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:34:50 -0400<br>
From: Kate Chapman <<a href="mailto:kate@maploser.com">kate@maploser.com</a>><br>
To: Schuyler Erle <<a href="mailto:schuyler@nocat.net">schuyler@nocat.net</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:imports@openstreetmap.org">imports@openstreetmap.org</a>, Frederik Ramm <<a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a>>,<br>
hot <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [HOT] [Imports] Update: Somalia places imported; roads up<br>
next<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAGn7mOrYY_pWeUNjMZyq_1dGqYS00xPi_9uWcYOxeZ_7yZhtEg@mail.gmail.com">CAGn7mOrYY_pWeUNjMZyq_1dGqYS00xPi_9uWcYOxeZ_7yZhtEg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
So, I was not at SotM-EU. Though I did look through the slides of the<br>
panel discussion and attempt to watch the video, but alas it wouldn't<br>
load.<br>
<br>
I understand the argument against imports. I see that there is data<br>
showing that it has stifled communities, BUT all of the examples are<br>
in North America and Europe. Look at Haiti for example. There were<br>
imports there and enough remote mapping that I think it probably could<br>
be considered almost the same as an import. Is there a community in<br>
Haiti today? Has the data gotten significantly better coverage than<br>
the initial month or so push for remote mapping? Are there cool<br>
projects going on using OSM that people living there are doing on<br>
their own because they have an open map? The answer to all of these<br>
is yes. Those of you attending SotM and my countries Visa policies<br>
willing can meet one of the founders of Community OpenStreetMap Haiti.<br>
<br>
I think still more time is required to determine if all imports are<br>
bad. Yes having data and charts is better than the normal argument,<br>
but the analysis should be expanded I think.<br>
<br>
-Kate<br>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Schuyler Erle <<a href="mailto:schuyler@nocat.net">schuyler@nocat.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> (crossposting because this is relevant to both lists, sorry)<br>
><br>
> On Aug 19, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:<br>
><br>
>> If you do all this because there is practically no hope of there ever being a functioning volunteer OSM community in Somalia, and therefore we (or, more precisely, whoever wants to use OSM data in Somalia) need to use UN and other assorted third-party data, then go ahead.<br>
>><br>
>> If, on the other hand, you are doing this because you hope to "kick-start OSM in Somalia" then I believe there is a very big danger that imports on such a scale will stifle rather than encourage the kind of growth we want. Yes, OSM will become more usable quicker, but people will have the attitude that OSM is done by "them" not "us".<br>
>><br>
>> What you are doing here is a replacement, not a foundation, for normal OSM activity, and nobody must be allowed to publicly present such an import as if it were somehow "kick-starting OSM" or as if it were the way in which OSM works normally.<br>
><br>
> Frederik, I attended your panel at SotM EU, and I understand the arguments. I agree with everything you just said.<br>
><br>
> With all due respect to our Somali brethren, and with tremendous regret, I must say that I fear that the technically proficient people in Somalia will have other things to worry about besides open mapping their country for a long time to come. Meanwhile, OSM has an opportunity to serve the humanitarian aid efforts in Somalia, which, for now, seems like the greater good... and I fear that these efforts will be going for a long time to come, as well.<br>
><br>
> We do hope, through the Ushahidi community, to engage with the Somali diaspora around the world, and encourage to augment the imports by adding names, points of interest, and so on. This is a key center of activity for HOT, and I hope we will be able to report at least some success there.<br>
><br>
> Frankly... I look forward to the day when someone from Somalia itself complains that the imports are getting in their way. I pledge to help them, if I can, and (God willing) if I'm around when that happens.<br>
><br>
> SDE<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> HOT mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:34:21 +0200<br>
From: andrzej zaborowski <<a href="mailto:balrogg@gmail.com">balrogg@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Schuyler Erle <<a href="mailto:schuyler@nocat.net">schuyler@nocat.net</a>><br>
Cc: hot <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [HOT] Volunteer with JOSM experience needed for Somalia<br>
admin boundary import<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAOq732Ks1eRXoj-OB2aQoLt44FYYgvmgrR44RGhq=<a href="mailto:nMERitaBA@mail.gmail.com">nMERitaBA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
Hi Schuyler,<br>
<br>
On 20 August 2011 11:35, Schuyler Erle <<a href="mailto:schuyler@nocat.net">schuyler@nocat.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> <a href="http://iconocla.st/hot/so/so_admin_combined.osm" target="_blank">http://iconocla.st/hot/so/so_admin_combined.osm</a><br>
<br>
I went ahead and changed a couple of things in the file and posted a<br>
new version at <a href="http://openstreetmap.pl/balrog/so_admin_combined-v2.osm" target="_blank">http://openstreetmap.pl/balrog/so_admin_combined-v2.osm</a><br>
which you may use or not. I made the following changes:<br>
<br>
* removed all of the external borders including islands. As I<br>
suggested I think this fixup to include national boundaries into the<br>
imported relations can be done manually and it shouldn't take longer<br>
than an hour or two, I can even do that tonight if you upload the<br>
internal boundaries earlier. I didn't want to do this inside the<br>
static .osm file becaue we'd be risking conflicts.<br>
<br>
* fixed the borders for a couple of the northernmost and southernmost<br>
districts which had osm2ogr greatly confused. It created duplicate<br>
ways and nodes and did other strange things there.<br>
<br>
* ran the "simplify way" tool on all of the ways in the file with the<br>
threshold set to 0.3m. This slashed the number of nodes in the file<br>
by 2.<br>
<br>
* added the admin_level tags to ways, this is a legacy tagging that is<br>
used by some renders.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 11:34:24 -0400<br>
From: Kate Chapman <<a href="mailto:kate@maploser.com">kate@maploser.com</a>><br>
To: hot <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: [HOT] Help New People to Edit Somalia<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAGn7mOoWQ6_sqV01Nso8MQBrJXQk5uj3RutoGgXkeSxp6usXMw@mail.gmail.com">CAGn7mOoWQ6_sqV01Nso8MQBrJXQk5uj3RutoGgXkeSxp6usXMw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Hey All,<br>
<br>
We are getting emails to <a href="mailto:hotosm@gmail.com">hotosm@gmail.com</a> from people interested in<br>
helping in Somalia, but I don't think they know how to edit in OSM.<br>
<br>
Is anyone interested in getting them started? I mean yes I could<br>
point them at some docs, but maybe a little more help than that?<br>
<br>
They are mostly from the Stand By Task Force, which we are planning to<br>
do a training soon.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Kate<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 11:43:00 -0700<br>
From: Eugene Usvitsky <<a href="mailto:eugene@usvitsky.com">eugene@usvitsky.com</a>><br>
To: Kate Chapman <<a href="mailto:kate@maploser.com">kate@maploser.com</a>><br>
Cc: hot <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [HOT] Help New People to Edit Somalia<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAJqjv4Tb06x8zRaNxzO24cxoY2uVCgk-wpqpfcrPu8-psgyptg@mail.gmail.com">CAJqjv4Tb06x8zRaNxzO24cxoY2uVCgk-wpqpfcrPu8-psgyptg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Hello Kate,<br>
<br>
I'll gladly help these volunteers. I doubt it will be face-to-face<br>
meetings but any online type of communication (e-mail or Skype) is OK.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
Eugene.<br>
<br>
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Kate Chapman <<a href="mailto:kate@maploser.com">kate@maploser.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hey All,<br>
><br>
> We are getting emails to <a href="mailto:hotosm@gmail.com">hotosm@gmail.com</a> from people interested in<br>
> helping in Somalia, but I don't think they know how to edit in OSM.<br>
><br>
> Is anyone interested in getting them started? ?I mean yes I could<br>
> point them at some docs, but maybe a little more help than that?<br>
><br>
> They are mostly from the Stand By Task Force, which we are planning to<br>
> do a training soon.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Kate<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> HOT mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 02:07:47 -0700<br>
From: Schuyler Erle <<a href="mailto:schuyler@nocat.net">schuyler@nocat.net</a>><br>
To: hot <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: [HOT] Status of Somalia roads import<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:98EDC308-40AC-4651-B7D2-73D8D40B1306@nocat.net">98EDC308-40AC-4651-B7D2-73D8D40B1306@nocat.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
TL;DR: I spent too much time today trying to make the MapMappers road data clean enough to import into OSM and I haven't succeeded yet. I am afraid that I am running out of time to spend on this project. #osm rules.<br>
<br>
I spent about 12 hours on this today. No luck yet, although I did learn an awful lot about cleaning up geometries so that JOSM won't complain about them.<br>
<br>
1) You can fix the topology of a shapefile by importing it into GRASS and using v.clean. Unfortunately, there is a stupid bug in GRASS and v.out.ogr takes way way longer than it should.<br>
<br>
2) You can de-dupe overlapping ways in PostGIS with variations on "select distinct geometry_field from roads" and then adding back the attributes later. You lose some data this way, but if you had overlapping roads in your source data to begin with... Who cares. Also, this doesn't seem to handle geometries that are reversed.<br>
<br>
3) It's actually really tricky to identify line segments that are the same but reversed. I wound up hacking ogr2osm.py to detect and throw away the subsequent instances. There are probably better ways to do this.<br>
<br>
4) I still don't have a good solution for this "double roads" problem:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://iconocla.st/hot/so/kill-me-now.png" target="_blank">http://iconocla.st/hot/so/kill-me-now.png</a><br>
<br>
Basically, the MadMappers roads data, on closer inspection, are a *bunch* of different road layers smooshed together into a single file. Someone has to sit down and figure out which values of the "layer" attribute actually mean anything. I'm wiped out and running out of available time to work on this -- if anyone else here has the time and energy to take over, let me know offlist; I'll be up in six hours or so. Otherwise I'll do the best I can to get it done when free time permits.<br>
<br>
I will say this though: The denizens of the #osm IRC channel are awesome. Thank you to everyone on IRC who helped out with advice or code today.<br>
<br>
SDE<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 02:12:39 -0700<br>
From: Schuyler Erle <<a href="mailto:schuyler@nocat.net">schuyler@nocat.net</a>><br>
To: Schuyler Erle <<a href="mailto:schuyler@nocat.net">schuyler@nocat.net</a>><br>
Cc: hot <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [HOT] Status of Somalia roads import<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4335EA79-8BE5-4432-88E9-380AD4B0CA89@nocat.net">4335EA79-8BE5-4432-88E9-380AD4B0CA89@nocat.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Oh and another thing.<br>
<br>
1.5) RUN V.GENERALIZE BEFORE RUNNING V.CLEAN. Because JOSM needs too much RAM to simplify that many objects, and the aforementioned v.out.ogr bug will make you weep otherwise. Actually PostGIS's awkwardly named st_simplifypreservetopology() does apparently work in a pinch. Is 1m a good simplification threshold for this use case?<br>
<br>
On Aug 21, 2011, at 2:07 AM, Schuyler Erle wrote:<br>
<br>
> TL;DR: I spent too much time today trying to make the MapMappers road data clean enough to import into OSM and I haven't succeeded yet. I am afraid that I am running out of time to spend on this project. #osm rules.<br>
><br>
> I spent about 12 hours on this today. No luck yet, although I did learn an awful lot about cleaning up geometries so that JOSM won't complain about them.<br>
><br>
> 1) You can fix the topology of a shapefile by importing it into GRASS and using v.clean. Unfortunately, there is a stupid bug in GRASS and v.out.ogr takes way way longer than it should.<br>
><br>
> 2) You can de-dupe overlapping ways in PostGIS with variations on "select distinct geometry_field from roads" and then adding back the attributes later. You lose some data this way, but if you had overlapping roads in your source data to begin with... Who cares. Also, this doesn't seem to handle geometries that are reversed.<br>
><br>
> 3) It's actually really tricky to identify line segments that are the same but reversed. I wound up hacking ogr2osm.py to detect and throw away the subsequent instances. There are probably better ways to do this.<br>
><br>
> 4) I still don't have a good solution for this "double roads" problem:<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://iconocla.st/hot/so/kill-me-now.png" target="_blank">http://iconocla.st/hot/so/kill-me-now.png</a><br>
><br>
> Basically, the MadMappers roads data, on closer inspection, are a *bunch* of different road layers smooshed together into a single file. Someone has to sit down and figure out which values of the "layer" attribute actually mean anything. I'm wiped out and running out of available time to work on this -- if anyone else here has the time and energy to take over, let me know offlist; I'll be up in six hours or so. Otherwise I'll do the best I can to get it done when free time permits.<br>
><br>
> I will say this though: The denizens of the #osm IRC channel are awesome. Thank you to everyone on IRC who helped out with advice or code today.<br>
><br>
> SDE<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> HOT mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
End of HOT Digest, Vol 18, Issue 19<br>
***********************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><b><font color="#CC9933">David Gogishvili</font></b><div><b><font color="#CC9933">Project Manager & GIS Analyst</font></b><div><b><font color="#CC9933">5 Shevchenko St., Suite 2, Tbilisi, Georgia<br>
Office + 995 32 14 29 26<br>Cell + 995 93 78 05 68<br> + 995 99 42 87 38</font><br><a href="http://www.omc.ge/" style="color:rgb(255, 0, 0)" target="_blank">http://www.omc.ge/</a></b><br><br><br><img src="http://thinkbeforeprinting.org/struct/signature-1.gif"></div>
</div><br>
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