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Le 03/02/2012 00:39, Martin Holmgren a écrit :
<blockquote
cite="mid:03F7AF1F-517B-4E44-AFA6-679A095B2554@gmail.com"
type="cite">Hi!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good luck at the meeting, it will be very interesting to hear
the World Bank's reasons for choosing Google as partner over
OSM. There must have been some analysis of the different
options, right? I would imagine that being extra important
for Aleem Walji, for the obvious risk of </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:03F7AF1F-517B-4E44-AFA6-679A095B2554@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>his past at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://Google.org">Google.org</a> affecting the decision
process.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Can this be true?!?! This is really incredible!!! Then how can he
even be involved in this?<br>
<br>
So it would not be only a matter of antitrust law...<br>
<br>
(By the way, Wikipedia.fr has an interesting source. [1])<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:03F7AF1F-517B-4E44-AFA6-679A095B2554@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div> So, please post what you have learned back to the list after
the meeting.</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'times new roman','new
york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt; position: static;
z-index: auto;">
<div><span>Is that too much to ask Google? They don't
take requests....</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Very true. But at the same time, my view is that Google
rapidly are reaching a tipping point in the public eye,
where the "Don't be evil" mantra is so watered down that
they either will have to drop it (and lose some of its staff
in the process, who are loyal to that principle) or start
acting very differently in some areas. Using the crowd as
free labor for improving its map offerings being one,
privacy issues another.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One way for Google to look better than they do right now
would be to make the results of all purely crowdsourced
efforts using GMM available under licensing conditions that
are compatible with CC BY-SA and ODbL. Of course all
proprietary data, including edits to such data in
crowdsourcing efforts, need to be excluded from the data
that is made more freely available.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Marty</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'times new roman','new
york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt; position: static;
z-index: auto;">
<div>PS Yes they have lawyers. But not ones that care
about open data, only about not getting sued. Clearly
no one who knew any of this in practice was consulted
for the MoU. But yes, talking about open data the
concepts can be obscure ... I tried to illustrate the
realities with some mapping stories: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/02/02/1756"
style="font-size: 12pt;">http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/02/02/1756</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PPS I don't think that's the root cause for the
Bank (though it's clearly something OSM needs to
improve. note, I don't think GMM has the best UI
either). Rather, I think they are seduced by the
association with the most powerful company in the
world, which is sexy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px;
padding-left: 5px; position: static; z-index: auto;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times
new roman','new york',times,serif;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">From:</span></b> Chris Blow <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cgblow@gmail.com">cgblow@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
hot <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, February 2, 2012 5:12 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<div id="yiv159642780">
<div>
<div>Hi Mikel, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
While there are several clear solutions that
are unrealistic to propose in your meeting,
I would just like to see a tool that allows
users to to export data most of the data
that they create in Google Maps.
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Is that too much to ask? I can
see that a technical barrier would
be an way to differentiate between
original user data entry and
modifications of existing data. If
someone edits a big interchange with
a 5 year history of 99% proprietary
edits, Google isn't going to give
that data back. But if you are
mapping completely new roads and
POIs in the developing world ... you
should be able to do a significant
export.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PS I don't understand how the WB
got itself into this, aren't they
all lawyers? How can OSM make it
clearer that there is a cost to
using proprietary data? It has a
toxic touch.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PPS it seems like better UX and
design at OSM could be the root
cause of them working with Google in
the first place — does this seem
accurate? Or are there deeper
architectural/technical/business
reasons that WB is going with
Google?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>c</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>On Feb 2, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Mikel
Maron wrote:</div>
<br
class="yiv159642780Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); font-size: 12pt; font-family:
times,serif;">
<div><span>They're talking about me.
Don't get too excited. I'll
probably have a lot more to say
soon. Would love to hear some
feedback ...</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207
@mikel s:mikelmaron<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:
2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);
margin-left: 5px; margin-top:
5px; padding-left: 5px;
position: static; z-index:
auto;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: times,serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: times,serif;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font
size="2" face="Arial">
<hr size="1"> <b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">From:</span></b>
Iván Sánchez Ortega <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:ivan@sanchezortega.es"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:ivan@sanchezortega.es">ivan@sanchezortega.es</a>><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">To:</span></b>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>
<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, February 2,
2012 1:37 PM<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[HOT] Meeting with WB
about MapMaker?<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
<br>
A news item got my attention
a few minutes ago:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://techpresident.com/news/21709/google-world-bank-deal-ask-too-much-crowd">http://techpresident.com/news/21709/google-world-bank-deal-ask-too-much-crowd</a><br>
<br>
Quote:<br>
<br>
«Aleem Walji, practice
manager of the World Bank's
innovation practice, said <br>
Thursday that he would be
sitting down with people
from [...] the open-source <br>
mapping group OpenStreetMap
to discuss a partnership
between the bank and <br>
Google that would see the
search giant's Google Map
Maker tool put to use in <br>
developing countries.»<br>
<br>
<br>
I'm wondering if they refer
to someone from the OSM
Foundation, or someone <br>
from HOT. I'd love to see
some feedback regarding this
issue over this <br>
mailing list.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
-- <br>
Iván Sánchez Ortega <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:ivan@sanchezortega.es"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:ivan@sanchezortega.es">ivan@sanchezortega.es</a>>
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:ivan@geonerd.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:ivan@geonerd.org">ivan@geonerd.org</a>><br>
<br>
Here I come when I better go<br>
I say yes when I ought to
say no<br>
--
Dragonnette, I come around<br>
<br>
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ymailto="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org"
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
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ymailto="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org"
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org"
href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot"
target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption#Formes">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption#Formes</a><br>
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