<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I was not aware of this particular restriction. There is always more to learn! Thanks for letting us know about it.<br><br>
The document has already been removed from the Dropbox, and we will not be documenting it in Wiki or in LearnOSM.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Nama<br>
</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Fran Boon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:francisboon@gmail.com" target="_blank">francisboon@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Whilst it is against their Terms of Service, I agree.<br>
However, I think this issue is important enough for us to campaign<br>
Bing to let us have an exception for this kind of case.<br>
<br>
As far as I understand the documentation is the same no matter what<br>
the imagery source?<br>
- so we can document it for other sources without these restrictions<br>
and then say 'Whilst the same principle could be applied to Bing<br>
imagery, this is currently against their Terms of Service'<br>
This allows people to make their own individual judgement calls on<br>
whether their humanitarian imperatives outweigh a terms of service,<br>
without incriminating HOT in any way...<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
F<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
On 17 July 2013 12:00, Kate Chapman <<a href="mailto:kate@maploser.com">kate@maploser.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi All,<br>
><br>
> Caching the Bing tiles and then sharing them between computers is<br>
> against Bing's Terms of Service. HOT should not be teaching people how<br>
> to do this and we should not be documenting it on the wiki or<br>
> LearnOSM. Bing is nice enough to let us use their imagery, it is not a<br>
> right of OSM, it is more a privilege. I think we should respect their<br>
> legal restrictions and not potentially spoil this great deal (Remember<br>
> when we didn't have Bing imagery?) for everyone.<br>
><br>
> -Kate<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Yohan Boniface<br>
> <<a href="mailto:yohan.boniface@hotosm.org">yohan.boniface@hotosm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Why not the OSM wiki itself?<br>
>> It seems to me that it's the place to store shared knowledge about OSM :)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 07/17/2013 09:50 AM, Mikel Maron wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Looks perfect addition to LearnOSM<br>
>>> * Mikel Maron * <a href="tel:%2B14152835207" value="+14152835207">+14152835207</a> @mikel s:mikelmaron<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>> *From:* Nama Budhathoki <<a href="mailto:namabudhathoki@gmail.com">namabudhathoki@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> *To:* Vivien Deparday <<a href="mailto:vivien.deparday@gmail.com">vivien.deparday@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> *Cc:* "<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:48 AM<br>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [HOT] next HOT tech chat<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Pierre, Vivian, and others,<br>
>>><br>
>>> We frequently experience the same problem here in Nepal due to low<br>
>>> Internet bandwidth. We have developed a guide to use offline imagery<br>
>>> in JOSM. Here is the link:<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wwpgorjubmp0nc/Using%20offline%20Bing%20Imagery%20in%20JOSM.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wwpgorjubmp0nc/Using%20offline%20Bing%20Imagery%20in%20JOSM.pdf</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> Nama<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Vivien Deparday<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:vivien.deparday@gmail.com">vivien.deparday@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:vivien.deparday@gmail.com">vivien.deparday@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Pierre,<br>
>>> if you are doing your workshop with JOSM, a short term and<br>
>>> low-tech solution is to use the caching feature of JOSM. As Paul<br>
>>> mentioned, you have to check the terms of use of the imagery you<br>
>>> are using to make sure you are allowed to cache it. You can find<br>
>>> the feature in JOSM in Edit->Preferences->WMS/TMS tab->Settings.<br>
>>> There is a path at the bottom. When you browse around an area,<br>
>>> the tiles are cached in this folder, once you have covered the<br>
>>> area you want (for each zoom level) then you can copy this<br>
>>> folder to the other computers in the right place (check the path<br>
>>> in the preferences or you can set the path to where you copied<br>
>>> the files). Also, I don't remember exactly but you may also need<br>
>>> to do what is written under the section "Caching" on this page<br>
>>> <a href="http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Menu/Imagery" target="_blank">http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Menu/Imagery</a> to make sure<br>
>>> the cache isn't deleted.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cheers,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Vivien<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Pierre Béland<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:pierzenh@yahoo.fr">pierzenh@yahoo.fr</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pierzenh@yahoo.fr">pierzenh@yahoo.fr</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> HOT is presently deploying four field teams in Burkina Faso,<br>
>>> Chad, Togo and Senegal. As it is often the case in these<br>
>>> countries, internet bandwith is a significant problem. We<br>
>>> are already experimenting problems in Togo.<br>
>>><br>
>>> What type of "not too techy" solution could be implemented<br>
>>> immediately to respond to internet communication problems of<br>
>>> a classroom with up to 20 computers ?<br>
>>><br>
>>> As we said yesterday at the Tech WG, the most significative<br>
>>> improvement for field teams would probably be to cache the<br>
>>> Imagery.<br>
>>><br>
>>> What short term solution would you propose for this?<br>
>>> Pierre<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>> *De :* Harry Wood <<a href="mailto:mail@harrywood.co.uk">mail@harrywood.co.uk</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mail@harrywood.co.uk">mail@harrywood.co.uk</a>>><br>
>>> *À :* Paul Norman <<a href="mailto:penorman@mac.com">penorman@mac.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:penorman@mac.com">penorman@mac.com</a>>>; 'Yantisa Akhadi'<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:yantisa@gmail.com">yantisa@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:yantisa@gmail.com">yantisa@gmail.com</a>>>; 'Mikel<br>
>>> Maron' <<a href="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com">mikel_maron@yahoo.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com">mikel_maron@yahoo.com</a>>><br>
>>> *Cc :* "<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>>" <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>>><br>
>>> *Envoyé le :* Mardi 16 juillet 2013 10h39<br>
>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] next HOT tech chat<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> > So, there's a few different things you could cache.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > One is imagery/tiles. For tiles it's a well-solved<br>
>>> problem, <a href="http://tile.osm.org" target="_blank">tile.osm.org</a> <<a href="http://tile.osm.org/" target="_blank">http://tile.osm.org/</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> > uses a bunch of squid caches and the configuration is all<br>
>>> at<br>
>>> > <a href="http://git.osm.org/chef.git/tree/HEAD:/cookbooks/tilecache" target="_blank">http://git.osm.org/chef.git/tree/HEAD:/cookbooks/tilecache</a><br>
>>> ><br>
>>><br>
>>> It would be neat if a BRCK type device could intercept<br>
>>> requests to <a href="http://tile.openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tile.openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>> <<a href="http://tile.openstreetmap.org/" target="_blank">http://tile.openstreetmap.org/</a>> while an internet<br>
>>><br>
>>> connection is working, and then serve the same tiles from<br>
>>> cache if the internet is down. I'm thinking of<br>
>>> man-in-the-middle caching on the connection device. Is that<br>
>>> a squid-like thing to do? That type of caching may already<br>
>>> be a generic function of BRCK. It would mean that if you<br>
>>> have some tool running locally, but which is designed to<br>
>>> require an internet connection for embedded maps (hitting<br>
>>> <a href="http://tile.openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tile.openstreetmap.org</a> <<a href="http://tile.openstreetmap.org/" target="_blank">http://tile.openstreetmap.org/</a>> in<br>
>>><br>
>>> the standard way) it could carry on working, without<br>
>>> re-configuring tile URLs.<br>
>>><br>
>>> ...but it wouldn't have all the tiles in the region. Just<br>
>>> those which somebody had viewed before. To have all the<br>
>>> tiles, the temptation is to request the full pyramid as a<br>
>>> bulk tile download. That causes problems for the server, and<br>
>>> is strictly disallowed on the main osm tile server, but you<br>
>>> could imagine some set-up in which aid workers are allowed<br>
>>> to bulk-download a pyramid of tiles from a HOT tile server<br>
>>> before they get on a plane.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Of course the smart way is to run a tile server in the<br>
>>> field. Smart because it's more compact, and also because<br>
>>> feeding in diffs is a reliable compact thing to do. Another<br>
>>> "solved problem" really ...Except that the technology is<br>
>>> somehow still far too complicated to give to a random<br>
>>> non-technical aid worker. In fact I think even people like<br>
>>> MapAction didn't get their heads around it. Rendering is<br>
>>> still very much an OpenStreetMap expert skill.<br>
>>><br>
>>> It think tiled vector data will be the key to lowering<br>
>>> barriers here. You mentioned tiles and API data as two forms<br>
>>> of caching, but cached *vector* data has huge potential.<br>
>>> This is a bit more of a blue skies idea. But check out this<br>
>>> tantalising preview from the MapBox guys:<br>
>>> <a href="https://vine.co/v/b0DvTPnpPtw" target="_blank">https://vine.co/v/b0DvTPnpPtw</a><br>
>>> <<a href="https://vine.co/v/b0DvTPnpPtw%C2%A0" target="_blank">https://vine.co/v/b0DvTPnpPtw%C2%A0</a>>That's the whole planet<br>
>>><br>
>>> on USB key, rendering on the fly. I think we want to get to<br>
>>> the point where aid workers don't leave home without a copy<br>
>>> of this. Then another challenge is allowing them to request<br>
>>> low-bandwidth data updates when they have internet. Of<br>
>>> course there are some pretty amazing mobile apps which use a<br>
>>> tile vector data approach. I really love MapsWithMe, but<br>
>>> it's closed-source and doesn't do low-bandwidth updates. Is<br>
>>> AND the best open source one? I hope we'll see convergence<br>
>>> on an open standard and open tools to view, and update<br>
>>> vector tiles. What's the best way for HOT to push things in<br>
>>> that direction?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Harry Wood<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> A disadvantage is that they only cache what has been<br>
>>> requested.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I think a remote team with sporadic internet connection.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> on the topic of HOT usb stick....<br>
>>> <a href="https://vine.co/v/b0DvTPnpPtw" target="_blank">https://vine.co/v/b0DvTPnpPtw</a><br>
>>> <<a href="https://vine.co/v/b0DvTPnpPtw%C2%A0" target="_blank">https://vine.co/v/b0DvTPnpPtw%C2%A0</a>><<< The entire word<br>
>>><br>
>>> rendering on the fly!<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> HOT mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> HOT mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> HOT mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>><br>
>>> ________________________________________________________________________<br>
>>> Nama R. Budhathoki, PhD<br>
>>> Nepal Lead<br>
>>> The World Bank's Open Data for Resilience Initiative (OpenDRI)<br>
>>><br>
>>> /Web: <a href="http://budhathoki.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://budhathoki.wordpress.com</a><br>
>>> <<a href="http://budhathoki.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">http://budhathoki.wordpress.com/</a>><br>
>>> Skype: namabudhathoki<br>
>>> Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/Nama_Budhathoki/" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/Nama_Budhathoki/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> HOT mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> HOT mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> HOT mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> HOT mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
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