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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi all,<br>
<font color="#999999">Jochen Topf, 2017-03-18 11:20:</font><br>
<pre wrap="">On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 10:48:00AM -0400, john whelan wrote:
<pre wrap="">I've read it through but remember like many mappers I do not have a Ph.D.
in GIS, just a degree in Chemistry so I'm usually not too bad on logic.
The first thing that stands out is the message is too complex for the
Yes, and no. The documentation we have now is trying to be complete and
thorough. The intended audience are, first, power mappers. I am totally
aware that it is too much for the average mapper, but that's why I need
everybodies help not only the fix things, but also to translate the
problem into words that the different audiences can understand.
I know that HOT has capable mappers that understand OSM well and have
written documentation for new HOT mappers to use. I hope I can reach
those people here so they can help.
<pre wrap="">The second "The *new style* tagging option is the recommended tagging
option these days, but some mappers still disagree." So we don't have
complete agreement, fine.
Well, that was me being overcautious. I haven't heard any disagreements
in the last months. So I don't think there is any major disagreements
left. I have removed that sentence from the documentation.
<pre wrap="">The third is the main problem areas seem to be some rendering systems
prefer one method over the other. "Are we mapping for a specific rendering
No, we are not. I am not sure why you got that impression from the
documentation. Can you point me to a specific sentence? I have
highlighted Osm2pgsql, because it is by far the most often used basis
for rendering maps and it is what powers the main OSM map. So changes
there will affect more people. And it also means that basically every
other system is trying to mimic what Osm2pgsql is doing (right or
wrong), because they have to keep "in sync" with the main map that OSM
mappers use to verify their work.
Currently all rendering systems have to handle old- and new-style
multipolygons and in the future they wont have to do that any more. This
makes all systems simpler.
<pre wrap="">I suspect if we concentrate on unclosed ways and duplicate segments then
this is something that can be done without a Ph.D. in GIS concepts and
there is no disagreement. Leave the more complex problem solving to others.
I totally agree. That's why I have been splitting up the work into small
Maproulette tasks, each with a very easy to understand and concrete
description of what the fixing task is. I don't expect most mappers to
be able to solve complex multipolygon cases. But there are plenty of
simple cases around.</pre>
I gave the Maproulette tasks a try yesterday evening and found them
easy to tackle. The advantage here is that they are typically
localized to a small area, you do not have to take lots of data into
For the bigger picture, OSM Inspector is the tool of choice but I
agree that many errors reported here are not easy to fix.<br>
I will try to get an overview of errors made by relatively new
contributors and see how we can improve documentation and learning
materials. Errors made are not always what you think of when writing
documentation, cf. this "single" building which contains
<img alt="" src="cid:part1.C6D79587.0D8EB8FD@digital-filestore.de"
Not to forget the biggest multipolygon of all (although not
technically organized as one), the coastline, which is more often
broken than not.<br>
<pre wrap="">I would recommend if you wish to use the resources of HOT that you talk
nicely to the HOT training group and see if they can sort out the message
and what training needs to be given to support these efforts including what
you would like mappers to avoid when mapping.
I am hoping these people are listening here. (Are you?) Or do I have to
go somewhere else to talk to them?</pre>
Yes, people active in the Training Working Group are listening here
as well. We are aware that new mappers need guidance and made
substantial improvements over the past months. Out chair, Nick
Allen, mentioned this last month in his e-mail to the hot list
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2017-February/012977.html">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2017-February/012977.html</a>).
We are always open to suggestions for further material to be
</small></i>PS: John, <br>
<blockquote type="cite">I have yet to see a HOT project that asks
mappers to map country outlines.</blockquote>
I agree that these are rare but they do exist
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1407">http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1407</a>)<br>