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<p>Dear Everybody, <br>
</p>
<p>I'm one of the new mappers and a read alle these mails with great
interest.<br>
I just started to map 6 months ago because of an article in our
local paper. First I started to map with ID, very easy to use but
recently I learned myself to work with JOSM and the building
plugin. <br>
My problems are somewhat differen from what I read in the
discussions, When I finish mapping I often ask for comment but
during the last six months I recieved only once a comment on my
work. I think that new mappers would love to get feedback as soon
as possible. One other thing is when I start with a new task,
sometimes a lot of work is already done but also sometimes very
poorly, buildings not squared or misplaced. I wonder, should I
correct that or leave it for the validators?<br>
An other thing is that everything on the map is out of place,
buildings, roads etc. Probebly the previous mapper has used an
other image than described in the instructions where it is written
to use Bing, again should I correct that or is there an other way
to continue with that task?<br>
I'm a beginner with JOSM but for me it's easyer to work with than
ID.</p>
<p>And than finaly, it seems there is not much to do now for
beginners, <br>
</p>
<p>Best regards</p>
<p>Henk Nugter<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Op 20-11-2017 om 14:05 schreef Bjoern
Hassler:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP5-cc536M-5mV+A0o9pe9TcKrOGcDpfVqA+cT9Jhv3e=4paDg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Dear friends,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thanks for the replies and engaging discussion. Can I
propose that we start a google document to put down some of
the ideas, and perhaps organise a follow-up chat or community
seminar where the ideas can be discussed further? Outcomes can
then be added to <span style="font-size:12.8px" lang="EN-GB"> </span><a
href="http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/"
target="_blank" style="font-size:12.8px"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://learnosm.org/en/<wbr>coordination/mapathon/</a> ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'll send you all invites to the document off list. I'll
leave the document so that no sign-in is required, in case you
don't want to have a google account!</div>
<div>Bjoern</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 November 2017 at 12:53, john
whelan <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
interesting thing is when the very experienced iD
specialist mapped a building they did it by placing a
dot in the four corners of the building then the ways
and tag were added very quickly by a short cut perhaps?
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">By
placing the four corners first you could see clearly
where they should go. I don't know how it was done but
as an interim measure perhaps we could teach this method
of mapping buildings?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio
John<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 November 2017 at 07:36,
Stuart Ward <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:stuart.ward@bcs.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">stuart.ward@bcs.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Having spent considerable time
fixing iD editor squares non-square buildings,
with random shared nodes, connected to roads,
and areas, getting a better first time result is
so important.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I pains where you come across a square that
they have clearly spent quite a lot of time
mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.</div>
<span class="m_7138046990438815210HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Stuart</div>
</font></span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><span
class="m_7138046990438815210HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div
class="m_7138046990438815210m_-6390235322704268745gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>-- <br>
Stuart Ward M <a
href="tel:+44%207782%20325143"
value="+447782325143"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">+44
7782325143</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="m_7138046990438815210h5">
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 19 November 2017
at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:blake.girardot@hotosm.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">blake.girardot@hotosm.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
A lot of this would be addressed if iD
had a building mapping tool<br>
like JOSM does. I am going to restart
the effort to get that added in<br>
to iD, I have some new ideas for how we
might be able to accomplish<br>
it. I think it would save literally
hundreds of hours volunteer time<br>
fixing buildings that are mapped by new
mappers and help new mappers<br>
increase their productivity and
accuracy.<br>
<br>
iD is by far the more approachable
editor for OSM, it runs on any<br>
desktop or laptop with zero installation
issues and has a great<br>
built-in tutorial, so I think we would
be well served by helping<br>
improve iD.<br>
<br>
If there are any JS wizards out there
who want to help complete the<br>
building tool for iD (it is already
started, just not completed)<br>
please contact me directly :)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Blake<br>
<div
class="m_7138046990438815210m_-6390235322704268745HOEnZb">
<div
class="m_7138046990438815210m_-6390235322704268745h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM,
john whelan <<a
href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> and I totally concur with what
Ralph has said.<br>
><br>
> We asked people who were
attending to install JAVA before
they arrived and I<br>
> had josm-tested.jar available
on a DVD to minimise the stress on
the wifi<br>
> network. I had a USB DVD device
with me and a bag of mice. The
particular<br>
> maperthon I was at was a one
off affair but we had someone from
the local<br>
> OSM group mention how to find
the monthly meetings where mapping
took place.<br>
><br>
> Note I had two machines
available that had JAVA, JOSM with
the plugins<br>
> already installed so it was
just a matter of "come in, sit down,
create an<br>
> account, wiggle the mouse now
you've mapped your first building."
Upload,<br>
> then we got them to install
JOSM on their own machine and when
we downloaded<br>
> the tile again their previous
mapping was there which reinforced
the idea<br>
> that they were mapping on a
live database.<br>
><br>
> It could be just me but my
feeling was we got a bit more
engagement with<br>
> JOSM as they could see the
underlying tags and having shown one
mapper how<br>
> to join up two rectangles for
an L shaped building I asked them to
show<br>
> another mapper how to do it
when they wanted to know which helps
on the<br>
> confidence building side.<br>
><br>
> For highways there is less to
choose between the two editors but
for<br>
> buildings certainly for
accuracy currently JOSM and the
building_tool plugin<br>
> wins hands down.<br>
><br>
> I think the large maperthons
have their place but perhaps we need
more<br>
> mini-maperthons?<br>
><br>
> Cheerio John<br>
><br>
> On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,
<<a
href="mailto:ralph.aytoun@ntlworld.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ralph.aytoun@ntlworld.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> A useful guide to running
your Mapathon can be found here<br>
>> <a
href="http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://learnosm.org/en/coordin<wbr>ation/mapathon/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> There is no hard and fast
rule to running a successful
Mapathon. As I<br>
>> point out, each Mapathon
will evolve at it’s own pace and in
it’s own<br>
>> direction dependent the
expertise of the people organizing
and leading, on<br>
>> the people attending, the
facilities available and the number
of people<br>
>> involved.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> As to the choice of Editor
used, I agree with John that JOSM is
preferred,<br>
>> unfortunately that choice
is not always available. We have
found that<br>
>> dealing with new mappers
using school or corporate
computers/laptops it is<br>
>> not always permitted to
download other programmes, or if you
have a large<br>
>> group uploading/downloading
at the same time can cause problems
for the<br>
>> available WiFi, and with
one really large group we overloaded
the OSM<br>
>> server. So our choice is to
start the large group of new mappers
with iD<br>
>> Editor so that we can get
them mapping as quickly as we can
and then deal<br>
>> with any questions they
have during the session.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I do not count any success
on how many squares have been
completed<br>
>> although it is encouraging
to the group to be shown at the end
how much<br>
>> their contribution has
advanced the project they are
working on. I prefer to<br>
>> concentrate on getting the
mappers to a stage where they are
comfortable<br>
>> with their mapping and
confident enough to try mapping
further on their own<br>
>> at home and hopefully
interested enough to return for
further guidance.<br>
>> Going around the room and
looking at what they are doing is
paramount to<br>
>> this success. Telling them
that they have got it and their work
is good<br>
>> gives them the assurance
they need to continue and even
become more<br>
>> adventurous, so John is
correct in saying that the
one-to-one does show more<br>
>> promise and achieve better
mapping. Even stopping to show a new
mapper how<br>
>> to improve and correct
their work has a very positive
effect on their<br>
>> confidence.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Working with small groups
definitely is an advantage because
of the<br>
>> personal attention they can
get, but will be more effective it
you can get<br>
>> them meeting on a regular
basis to build on their experience
and skill with<br>
>> the various tools on JOSM.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> At the London monthly
Mapathon we have three training
sections running at<br>
>> the same time … iD , JOSM
and Validating. And it is up to the
individual as<br>
>> to which session they sign
up to. If they want to start
straight away with<br>
>> JOSM they are welcome to do
so. The mappers know that there is
going to be a<br>
>> Mapathon on the first
Tuesday of every month so it becomes
a fixed date on<br>
>> their calendar which does
help with returning mappers. We also
keep the<br>
>> email addresses of
attendees and they will get invited
back to future<br>
>> Mapathons with an
Eventbrite invitation.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> As a guide to success I
would point you to the fact that
most of the<br>
>> trainers at the London
Mapathons started off as newcomers
and have stayed<br>
>> and progressed, a number of
attendees have gone on to start up
mapping<br>
>> groups at their
universities. Also at universities
and corporate offices<br>
>> where we have run Mapathons
they have started up inhouse Mapping
Parties and<br>
>> Mapathons of their own.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Martin Dittus gave us some
statistics early on in the process
of evolving<br>
>> the London Mapathons which
showed approximately 30% return rate
but it<br>
>> tailed of quickly, which is
why we decided to offer the
returning mappers<br>
>> the option of going onto
JOSM, this helped the retention of
mappers and now<br>
>> we also have a MidMonth
Mapathon for experienced JOSM
mappers to get<br>
>> involved in more advanced
work.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> To sum up, yes JOSM is
desirable in getting good building
mapping and very<br>
>> definitely when the mapping
moves into dense city centres or
slums where<br>
>> they are built butting up
against each other. But then for
people with no<br>
>> previous map experience the
learning curve is very steep, having
to learn<br>
>> about OSM, the Tasking
Manager, the Editor, read Satellite
Imagery, drawing<br>
>> the features and also
tagging correctly so reducing this
slightly by using<br>
>> the iD Editor to start with
does make sense when you have a
limited time to<br>
>> get them started.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> If you have any questions
regarding getting started or running
your<br>
>> Mapathon feel free to email
me and I will try to help where I
can.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Hope some of this might be
useful.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Ralph<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows
10<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>> HOT mailing list<br>
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href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org"
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moz-do-not-send="true">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/hot</a><br>
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><br>
><br>
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<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<span
class="m_7138046990438815210m_-6390235322704268745HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">--<br>
------------------------------<wbr>----------------------<br>
Blake Girardot<br>
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team<br>
</font></span>
<div
class="m_7138046990438815210m_-6390235322704268745HOEnZb">
<div
class="m_7138046990438815210m_-6390235322704268745h5"><br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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