<div dir="ltr"><div>
"I suggest you relax a little, if OpenStreetMap isn't fun try something
else. "<br></div><div>You have reason. I have to relax myself.</div><div>I have unsubscribed from this list.<br></div><div>Happy confinement.</div><div><br></div><div>yopaseopor<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 11:51 PM John Whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>There are plenty of urgent things that HOT
hasn't mapped yet. What one NGO thinks is urgent another might not
agree.<br>
<br>
Take look at the Import mailing list and you'll find many blunter posts
there.<br>
<br>
There is a range of points of view within OpenStreetMap yours is one of
them.<br>
<br>
If you go back to the response to your first posts and read through them
I think you will agree they were more polite. Unfortunately you seemed
unable to accept the advice given. <br>
<br>
Fredrick can come across as blunt sometimes but what he says often makes
sense and I agree with him about the dangers of imports.<br>
<br>
You are in a well mapped area. The locals probably know where their
local pharmacy is. From a medical point of view I'm unclear on how
knowing details of where a pharmacy is is important to COVID-19.<br>
<br>
There are no known drugs at this point in time. Soap and water is
probably the most effective preventive treatment, that and not going
down to the pub or restaurant.<br>
<br>
For the record I have done a fair amount of validation work in HOT
projects until I grew tired of poor work that took more effort to
validate than map correctly in the first place. These days I spend time
cleaning up the map, deleting duplicate buildings many of which have
been mapped on HOT projects, connecting villages that haven't been
connected with highways etc. I have had some experience with the import
process and of gathering together support for the local mappers to do
an import.<br>
<br>
I suggest you relax a little, if OpenStreetMap isn't fun try something
else.<br>
<br>
Cheerio John<br>
<br>
<span>yo paseopor wrote on 2020-03-17 6:25 PM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">"
But don't get me wrong. The problem is not the license or the
discussion. The problem is you have offended me. I demand an apology."<br><div><br></div><div>One
responsible of here wrote:<br></div><div><br></div><div>
1.
Nothing is urgent here
<br>2. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a pharmacy is missing from
OSM<br>3. You sit at home with nothing else to do.</div><div><br></div><div>What
do you think about this three topics? What if some one tell that about
one of the HOT projects?</div><div>Think about it.</div><div><br></div><div>If
some OSM user say that to other user that would be unacceptable<br></div><div>If
some HOT user say that to other user that would be unacceptable</div><div>If
some HOT responsible say that to other user would be unacceptable</div><div>If
some HOT responsible say that to a user about user's land would be
unacceptable.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't know who you are. It
does not matter.</div><div>yopaseopor</div><div><br></div><div>PD: I'm
confined. For the first time ever Spanish school (as European schools)
are stopped without date of return.Nor Civil War or II World War stopped
the school and confined all the people. Also major part of citizens of
Europe are confined. It's time to act.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar
17, 2020 at 8:57 PM John Whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>There
is a difference between HOT and
OpenStreetMap. HOT adds data to OpenStreetMap and has to follow
OpenStreetMaps rules when adding data as we all do.<br>
<br>
If you are mapping from local knowledge ie I can see this that is fine
by OpenStreetMap rules. The Import rules are for imports and are there
for a purpose which is to protect OpenStreetMap from having data added
to it that cannot be licensed by OpenStreetMap to its end users using
the .ODBL license.<br>
<br>
Getting the correct license does take time sometimes, it took me some
five years to get the local municipal open data license aligned with
OpenStreetMap. It is today and we are able import the local bus stops.
Doesn't sound like much but we have all the phone numbers to dial to
see when the next bus is coming.<br>
<br>
The quality of some imports made in the past has been less than ideal.
Certainly there are places on the map that have tags saying fixme this
village name maybe 2 kilometers out. I came across one village
yesterday with three different names which appeared to be from three
different imports.<br>
<br>
Today imports are challenged routinely. Locally I handled the last one
because the person who did it before really didn't want to go through
the aggressive challenges to the license and data quality that came from
the import mailing list. <br>
<br>
Remember OpenStreetMap has many members, only some of whom believe that
imports are good. Some others think if it hasn't been surveyed with a
mapper on the ground then it shouldn't be in the map.<br>
<br>
Cheerio John<br>
<br>
<span>yo paseopor wrote on 2020-03-17 3:15 PM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"> You insult me.
You have said to a
confined teacher (For 1st time ever, and it is not a joke ALL the
education has been stopped in Spain sine die) literally: "you don't
have any better to do".<br><br>My first collaboration was Italy's 2015
Earthquake , in Amatrice. In 24 hours I was mapping first the existed
buildings, from Bing or something like that. 24 hours later I was
tagging the same buildings following millitary data: red destroyed,
yellow ruined , green safe structures. It was an emergency, we had to
act in that moment, with no delay.<br>I talk about this in a interview
in a MSF Mapathon.<a href="https://beteve.cat/ciencia-i-tecnologia/crear-mapes-des-de-barcelona-per-fer-mes-accessible-lassistencia-medica-a-sierra-leone/" target="_blank">
https://beteve.cat/ciencia-i-tecnologia/crear-mapes-des-de-barcelona-per-fer-mes-accessible-lassistencia-medica-a-sierra-leone/</a> </div><div dir="ltr"> That impacted me so much. That changed my life. Nobody's
tell me, Hey! you don't have anything better to do (was on summer
holidays). From that, have I gone to 9? 10 mapathons?
<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>5 years later, in a National
Emergency situation one of the "Lizard People" of OSM told me when I
have to tried to complete the pharmacies in my land , with a data set
with specific permission to OSM three things:</div><div><br></div><div>1.
Nothing is urgent here
<br>2. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a pharmacy is missing from
OSM<br>3. You sit at home with nothing else to do</div><div><br></div><div>Tell
me one reason to collaborate with HOT for Burundi or Burkina Faso if I
can't do with Catalonia or Spain, my land, with data which we have an
specific permission.<br><br>But don't get me wrong. The problem is not
the license or the discussion. The problem is you have offended me. I
demand an apology.<br>yopaseopor</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 4:53 PM Frederik
Ramm <<a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
On 2020-03-17 16:47, yo paseopor wrote:<br>
> "Nothing is urgent here. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a
pharmacy<br>
> is missing from OSM. You are just making up an urgent task because
you<br>
> sit at home with nothing else to do." said by Frederik Ramm to an<br>
> Openstreetmap volunteer who is confined at home due to #COVID19<br>
> completing pharmacies in a zone, yesterday.<br>
> <br>
> Is this the way to promote HOT tasks or promote local mapping in
OSM. I<br>
> don't think so.<br>
<br>
You didn't promote local mapping, you promoted an import that has<br>
meanwhile turned out to be a massive copyright violation because you<br>
decided to act first and ask questions later - which is exactly the kind<br>
of "help" that I am advocating against. I don't doubt your good<br>
intentions, but I am certain that every single person in the<br>
humanitarian sector knows that good intentions alone aren't sufficient.<br>
<br>
Bye<br>
Frederik<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a> ##
N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<br>
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