<div dir="ltr"><div>Kumusta/Hi everyone,</div><div><br></div><div>Appreciate everyone's help and opinions to keep the conversation going.</div><div><br></div><div>I support adopting the current HOT CoC. But which HOT CoC should we adopt? There are two (2) CoCs available as of writing: One that the membership created in 2014 [1], and the other one that the board created in 2017 [2] (which is what is posted on the website). </div><div><br></div><div>I would also like to share that I personally think that CoC is necessary in all communication channels/forms. CoC can make the channel subscribers/members feel safer and more open (eg to express opinion without intimidation and/or abuse).</div><div><br></div><div>thanks and regards.</div><div>=Arnalie</div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/2/2f/HOT_Membership_Code--proposal_for_annual_meeting_2014.pdf" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/2/2f/HOT_Membership_Code--proposal_for_annual_meeting_2014.pdf</a></div><div>[2] <a href="https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-10-30_code_of_conduct" target="_blank">https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-10-30_code_of_conduct</a></div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 7:08 PM <<a href="mailto:hot-request@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">hot-request@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send HOT mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Mailing List Code of Conduct (Courtney Clark)<br>
<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:02:15 -0400<br>
From: Courtney Clark <<a href="mailto:courtneyclark8@gmail.com" target="_blank">courtneyclark8@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Blake Girardot <<a href="mailto:bgirardot@gmail.com" target="_blank">bgirardot@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Can Unen <<a href="mailto:can.unen@hotosm.org" target="_blank">can.unen@hotosm.org</a>>, hot <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>>,<br>
Mikel Maron <<a href="mailto:mikel.maron@gmail.com" target="_blank">mikel.maron@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [HOT] Mailing List Code of Conduct<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CABNEd+tQ-rM5bXbXhxBQ3zF9h+AwZ1iQtB41U6GTe-=<a href="mailto:OzT5yMg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">OzT5yMg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Thanks, Can, and others for keeping this important conversation going. I am<br>
no CoC expert, but I'm inclined to support adopting HOT's CoC for this<br>
mailing list, since everyone on this list has already agreed to follow it<br>
by being involved with HOT.<br>
<br>
I did notice in other CoC's that complaints are handled by the mailing list<br>
moderators. The complaint handling process for HOT's CoC has its own<br>
complaint handling process that can include various Working Groups and HOT<br>
staff. Would it be important to amend the CoC as it applies to this list to<br>
specifically state that complaints will be dealt with by the moderators?<br>
And if so, I'd love to have a better understanding of who moderates the<br>
list with Blake, if anyone, as we may need to have several others sign up<br>
as moderators so that complaints can be handled by a diverse group with<br>
multiple perspectives.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Courtney<br>
<br>
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 7:22 AM Blake Girardot <<a href="mailto:bgirardot@gmail.com" target="_blank">bgirardot@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hola,<br>
><br>
> Sorry, to be clear:<br>
><br>
> "Others have forged beyond that and done so anyway, imposed their own CoC,<br>
> or think they have done so, and just never been challenged on it. "<br>
><br>
> I mean other OSM list moderators, on other lists, like the diversity list,<br>
> have their own CoC, or think they do, just because no one has raised an<br>
> issue about it to challenge it. I am on the diversity list, I agree with<br>
> the CoC there, but I do not for a moment think the OSMF would support<br>
> enforcing it if someone objected.<br>
><br>
> However, the OSMF Email guidelines... those seem to be the only "official"<br>
> OSMF "CoC"<br>
><br>
> Best wishes,<br>
> blake<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 7:09 AM Blake Girardot <<a href="mailto:bgirardot@gmail.com" target="_blank">bgirardot@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Hi again Friends,<br>
>><br>
>> I see, if the question is can we HOT have our own CoC for this list?<br>
>><br>
>> Years ago the consensus was not really as this email list is maintained<br>
>> and hosted by the OSMF on their resources.<br>
>><br>
>> Others have forged beyond that and done so anyway, imposed their own CoC,<br>
>> or think they have done so, and just never been challenged on it.<br>
>><br>
>> We did not do that here. Here we stuck to OSMF Email guidelines that were<br>
>> for some other issues, but existed at least.<br>
>><br>
>> Our need for more CoC has not really come up since that time, but I am<br>
>> all for it.<br>
>><br>
>> The other solution was HOT starts its own list and this list get renamed<br>
>> and continues on as '<a href="mailto:humanitarian_mapping@osm.org" target="_blank">humanitarian_mapping@osm.org</a>' and this list goes<br>
>> off, with its own CoC, as a list @<a href="http://hotosm.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">hotosm.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> Best wishes,<br>
>> blake<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 7:01 AM Blake Girardot <<a href="mailto:bgirardot@gmail.com" target="_blank">bgirardot@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Hi Friends,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I have been the main moderator on the HOT list for the past 5 or 6 years.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I collaborate with Mikel, but have not really needed to for the past 3<br>
>>> years or so.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Is there an issue I am not aware of?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Best wishes,<br>
>>> Blake<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 6:26 AM Can Unen <<a href="mailto:can.unen@hotosm.org" target="_blank">can.unen@hotosm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Thanks a lot for explaining the background of this discussion Clifford<br>
>>>> and Mikel.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> There are five talk lists from the US and four topic-specific lists<br>
>>>> that have adopted a CoC according to the mailing lists wiki [1]. Eight of<br>
>>>> them have accepted the US Chapter's CoC [2], while the diversity mailing<br>
>>>> list has a different CoC specified [3]. My personal view is to accept HOT's<br>
>>>> CoC [4] within this list as well, since it is widely adopted in al<br>
>>>> communication channels of HOT apart from here.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I support Mikel's suggestion of a discussion within the mailing list to<br>
>>>> decide if a CoC should be adopted in this mailing list; and if so, what<br>
>>>> should be the governing text.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I will follow up with a poll for the mailing list in the coming days<br>
>>>> for these discussions unless there are objections to me doing so.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Best<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Can<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> [1] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists</a><br>
>>>> [2]<br>
>>>> <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee/OSM_US_Code_of_Conduct" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee/OSM_US_Code_of_Conduct</a><br>
>>>> [3]<br>
>>>> <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct</a><br>
>>>> [4] <a href="https://www.hotosm.org/code-of-conduct" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.hotosm.org/code-of-conduct</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:06 AM Mikel Maron <<a href="mailto:mikel.maron@gmail.com" target="_blank">mikel.maron@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> > A couple of days ago Mikel<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Actually Clifford asked me because I'm the inactive moderator of this<br>
>>>>> mailing list, and I passed it on for discussion within the HOT membership.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> And yes, I don't think request for Board to approve is appropriate at<br>
>>>>> this time. However, the discussion here could be useful for a larger<br>
>>>>> discussion about communications and trust and safety within OSM.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> -Mikel<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 12:22:35 PM EDT, Clifford Snow <<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:clifford@snowandsnow.us" target="_blank">clifford@snowandsnow.us</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 7:45 AM Can Unen <<a href="mailto:can.unen@hotosm.org" target="_blank">can.unen@hotosm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> > Hello everybody, I'm writing to carry a conversation in HOTOSM<br>
>>>>> membership lists to here, hoping to kick-off a discussion and maybe reach a<br>
>>>>> consensus.<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > A couple of days ago Mikel had asked about the governing code of<br>
>>>>> conduct for this mailing list, and the initial thought was to assume the<br>
>>>>> HOT CoC should be it. But the thing is, this list is operated and<br>
>>>>> maintained by OSMF, and the Community CoC Draft and OSMF Communication<br>
>>>>> Guidelines seem to cover the mailing list as well, but they seem to be<br>
>>>>> outdated, and unmaintained for some time.<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > Do you think a CoC need to be adopted in the mailing list, and how?<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > In such case, would a consensus in the list be sufficient for this,<br>
>>>>> or should there be a decision from the OSMF board?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Can,<br>
>>>>> I'm on the US Chapter's CoC committee. The Chapter formally adopted a<br>
>>>>> CoC this year. US centric mailing list moderators were invited to opt in to<br>
>>>>> having their lists covered by the CoC. If you look at wiki [1] you can see<br>
>>>>> which lists are covered by a CoC with a link back to the CoC.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I would encourage HOT to do something similar. It does not need<br>
>>>>> approval from OSMF. Especially since OSMF only has etiquette guidelines<br>
>>>>> with no means to handle complaints.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Best,<br>
>>>>> Clifford<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> [1] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists</a><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> @osm_washington<br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.snowandsnow.us" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.snowandsnow.us</a><br>
>>>>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch<br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> HOT mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> *H. Can Ünen, Ph.D.*<br>
>>>> Project Manager @Istanbul, TR<br>
>>>> Email: <a href="mailto:can.unen@hotosm.org" target="_blank">can.unen@hotosm.org</a><br>
>>>> Skype: canunen<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team<br>
>>>> Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development<br>
>>>> web <<a href="http://hotosm.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://hotosm.org/</a>> | twitter <<a href="https://twitter.com/hotosm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/hotosm</a>> |<br>
>>>> facebook <<a href="https://www.facebook.com/hotosm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/hotosm</a>> | donate<br>
>>>> <<a href="http://hotosm.org/donate" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://hotosm.org/donate</a>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> HOT mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
>>> Blake Girardot<br>
>>> OSM Wiki - <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot</a><br>
>>> HOTOSM Member - <a href="https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot</a><br>
>>> skype: jblakegirardot<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Blake Girardot<br>
>> OSM Wiki - <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot</a><br>
>> HOTOSM Member - <a href="https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot</a><br>
>> skype: jblakegirardot<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
> Blake Girardot<br>
> OSM Wiki - <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot</a><br>
> HOTOSM Member - <a href="https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot</a><br>
> skype: jblakegirardot<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> HOT mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Courtney Clark, MBA<br>
<br>
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers<br>
<br>
Cell: 231-740-9595 | Email: <a href="mailto:Courtneyclark8@gmail.com" target="_blank">Courtneyclark8@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/courtney-clark-08297410/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/courtney-clark-08297410/</a><br>
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</blockquote></div></div>