[Imports] [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Announce: OpenOS

Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com
Sat Mar 27 17:58:20 GMT 2010

Hi, i wrote in-line

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 8:36 AM, andrzej zaborowski <balrogg at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 27 March 2010 16:17, Sam Vekemans <acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com> wrote:
> > But actually we already have a Dev.osm server API that people use for
> > samples, this maybe could be called OpenImportsMap.org?
> The purpose of dev is a little different, people test new tools there
> and do that often by adding nonsensical data or deleting a random
> piece.

I do remember on the IRC someone recommending to a newbie to 'let their kids
go nuts' over on the dev API.  (perhaps that wasn't the best recommendation,
teaching the kid that is a group of volunteers who take pride in quality
work would probably have been better).

>  For your clearinghouse you want something where data doesn't
> disappear for no reason.

Which is  an expansion of OpenOS to include the world, so this would be a
place to host the entire Import catelogue  (which BTW, that top header
should be BOLDED a little more) IMO.

>From my example, I would need to be careful and only put in the data that is
intended to be used. ie. if a road network is available from 3 different
sources (national canvec nts size & geobase province size & provincial
Ontario separate dataset) we would want to make sure that the best version
is available.

Ideally, this is also a good home to store the entire CanVec/ TIGER / LINZ /
OS  etc..dataset (of all features). ...   So then it can:
1 - be updated all the time with the latest data (as new datasets become
available, that precious (or precarious)  UUID is kept nice and clean)
2 - it can be converted to a WMS (of the complete set & available to anyone
at any time)
3 - source shp files could be kept? (or just converted to .osm as soon as
its available from the source, if not available in real-time... but ogr2osm
could be programmed with a script to be run to check the source for changes
& convert as changes happen from the data source (checking source file
update-date & file size)
3 - and it can be all converted to .gpx (for if it isn't available as a WMS)
so people can trace over the geometry (in the regular OSM environment)
4 - and  have it as an (ugly) mapnik/osmarender/special_mix map tiles can be
rendered and shown.  .. not pritty because we dont want to encourage editing
of the this database.
5 - ... and doesn't interfere with the community work.
6 - ... and doesn't require people to 'claim' areas they are working on

eg1 (as in Canada we are 'claiming NTS tiles on a Google docs chart,
eg2 in Haiti the Hospital POIs were organized on a GoogleDocs chart with
access by invite (which was frustrating for mappers, as it became a separate
project, that always has to keep up) (ketchup and muster) ... keeping the
playground separate is requested many times over.
eg3 and other countries 'claim areas' using a wikitable.  (and requires
users to 'claim' that part of the file/file slice or geographic region)
eg4 or some other like Coraine with a dedicated website hosting it all (like
OpenStreetBugs).  ...[1]

These these methods currently in use are fine for an overview, but not for
the details as it cannot keep up, and actually destroys communities (yes
destroys).  Since the entire community is not on the talk@ lists, or IRC's
they dont know what's going on & cant help in real-time,  where as a
'OpenImportsMap'  WMS Layer[2] or pulling data from a different API[3] or
pulling GPX from a different API would solve this and keep the community)

.... i could continue on for days but wont. :0)

(I cc'd the imports@ list and talk-us@ list and talk-ca@ list and the New
Zealand list (as they are currently in the planning stage of LINZ data.
Sorry, i just cant handle another discussion list :-)

Thanks to that user for sharing the wiki
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Importing_Government_Data page on that
journal entry yesterday :-)  ... i'll edit it and talk about canvec a bit
there.  (instead of making a new essay, i'll do that on a blog instead)


[1] the OpenImportsMap idea is a derivative / spin-off from the Corrine
import process (but on a much larger planet size scale)
[2] http://wms.openstreetmap.de/ already exists and is a holding house for
the WMS layers to be used.  the all could technically be combined in to 1
large WMS feed (as a few countries are now listed)
[3] the dev server is like these ones http://apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ ...
where is says 'as a data sandbox', the idea here is to designate a 'sandbox'
for all of the data that is available to import. (or has already been
imported & the latest data can be 'imported' into this new sandbox and
replace the old sand.'   ... and the 'sand' is the entire world (made up of
little nodes).

> I also have some huge datasets that I'd like to put somewhere with API
> access that isn't the main database, one is an import ongoing for two
> years already, the other is a dataset I vectorised but can't use it in
> OSM because I'm only allowed non-commercial use right now but which
> would still be useful to people doing non-commercial applications.

Yes, for example the entire MapCenter2.cgpsmapper project
http://mapcenter2.cgpsmapper.com/ could all be converted and loaded into
this separate database.   However, this would be, perhaps a little too
tempting for people to 'accidentally' use.  Mapcenter is a good storing
house for 'garmin maps', and .mp files but not for .osm files.

> Cheers

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 7:44 AM, SteveC <steve at asklater.com> wrote:
As you've probably heard the Ordnance Survey is going to open some data next
week. We don't exactly know what data or what license it will be under but
there's a reasonable chance it won't be importable in to OSM because either
the data will be low scale or released with an incompatible license.

If that's the case then I propose we start, separate from OSM, an OpenOS
project. I basically see it as either a clearinghouse for putting up
converted formats for the data and/or a full OSM stack, mapnik, potlatch and
all for editing and fixing it. Because as Russ Nelson keeps saying, datasets
without a community are dead.

I propose that until we know it's compatible, usable and so on in OSM that
no OSM resources are spent/used on something like this. Thus, I've bought
the domain openos.co.uk to host it and set up a google group which you're
welcome to join to help discuss what to do if/when we get some data.

I think this data will need a community, tools and editing and who better to
build all that than people from OSM?


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