[Imports] Fwd: Fwd: Question on imports

Randal Hale rjhale at northrivergeographic.com
Mon Oct 21 01:42:39 UTC 2013

Daniel - Sorry for the late response - I've been taking a break for a bit.

I agree - the end goal is usable data for the community. My current 
heartburn over all of this is the community. You guys have "guidelines" 
that need to be followed. There is great merit behind the guidelines. I 
would argue that those guidelines have turned into a law at this point. 
Which is fine - just make it well known that there is a law of imports. 
We had no clue until the emails started flying. There was no "Hey - I 
see you're doing an import and I would like to talk to you about it" 
yesterday. It was a line in the sand that was very poorly communicated. 
I have said it in previosu emails and I will say it here. Work on the 
communication aspect of this. You guys are ambassadors - I have clients 
offering me data constantly "Please put this in OSM". I won't even 
suggest they get the emails or the attitude that was exhibited towards 
myself or Carol. Especially Carol - This is her second bad experience 
from OSM. It took me a while to get her involved again after the first 
one - then this happened.

I imported data 3 months ago. It was a very small area outside of the 
continental US (I was sitting in that area when it was uploaded). It 
went completely unnoticed (or at least there was none of the action we 
had yesterday). I had proper clearance from the data owner to upload and 
sourced them in that upload. It was important to the data owner it was 
done - I did it. with that small upload they have cleared the rest of 
the data to be opened once it is created. I had no clue that imports had 
gotten this heated or we wouldn't have started it this way. The tools 
for an import are everywhere. On the front page of the wiki there is one 
mention of import. It's right after Donate some money under 
Contributing. If I can suggest - make a line item about imports on the 
front page for those of us in the geospatial industry. If it's this big 
of a deal - it needs separate mention. Draw attention to it. Make it 
clear for contributors - or ban imports altogether.

I welcome your help. We will be filling out a wiki page and following 
the guidelines to the best of our ability. If we falter - I hope someone 
helps as opposed to drawing a line in the sand and yelling. As anyone 
has noticed I have no problem arguing - but it's not helpful to the 
discussion when I or anyone drifts into that zone. Over the next few 
days I'll make the page - share our methodology - and even provide maps 
on how we were progressing in this upload and how we were handling 
errors when they arose. I will put data somewhere it can be accessed and 
I hope everyone will tell us what is wrong with it.

I appreciate the email - I appreciate your offer of help. This 
discussion on our end has drifted into the Data working group and Serge. 
The discussion continues and I hope everyone at some point can see the 
emails. We don't discuss in a vacuum - we hope no one does.

Frederick - I appreciate your concern.

rjhale at northrivergeographic.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: *Daniel O'Connor* <daniel.oconnor at gmail.com 
<mailto:daniel.oconnor at gmail.com>>
Date: Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Imports] Question on imports
To: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org <mailto:frederik at remote.org>>
Cc: imports at openstreetmap.org <mailto:imports at openstreetmap.org>

Can we all take a moment, pause,  and relax a bit?

On one side, we have a contributor with pride on their side annoyed at 
the insinuation they are doing something wrong.
On the other;  we have a group that worries about imports going wrong.

The two end goals: get data imported to the net benefit of the mapping 
community are the same.

@Randal, how best can this group help you moving forward?

As you can see the are a few pieces of advice from the group here around 
taking it slowly, encouraging a written plan, sharing some of the 
samples of work you plan on importing.

I think if you put aside some of the heat in the responses;  you can 
admit there is merit behind these recommendations.

Would you like help doing a writeup of the plan?
Happy to lend a hand there


    just to understand this better:

On 10/20/2013 02:49 AM, Randal Hale wrote:
 > The data was donated yesterday. Data prep started yesterday.

So you have thought about how to import it for one full day, and you
haven't talked to anyone else about it, and ...

 > Since the editathon is this weekend - I'm not spending the better part
 > of a week arguiing the merits of building foot print data. I needed to
 > show progress today - it's building foot print data - not addresses or
 > anything else.

... you are not even *willing* to talk because you need to "show
progress" two days after the data has been donated?

Please, with regards to imports that's about as bad as it gets. If you
have no time to do it right, then don't do it, period.


Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org 
<mailto:frederik at remote.org>  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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