[Imports] Fwd: Marin County data license

Serge Wroclawski emacsen at gmail.com
Fri Oct 31 18:32:05 UTC 2014


Carl,

Thanks for this great insight via this case.Reading through the pdf,
and not being a lawyer, a few things stand out at me.

Firstly, there's no definition by the court of what public means in
this case. Public data might mean that the data is available to access
but not to use, or that it's copyrighted but made available.

Secondly, while we could argue that this data should be made available
under certain terms, it's really up to the city to do. While "It
should be available under these terms" is a good defense if we decide
to use it w/o the city's terms, we still need the city to say the data
is available under certain terms.

I think this is something the LWG will need to decide. Alternatively,
it would be best if the city simply clarified its position.

Putting this in context, in relation to NYC, I got 6 different answers
about license for data from 4 different people, all while the data
should have been made under a very liberal license (essentially public
domain).

- Serge

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Carl Anderson <carl.anderson at vadose.org> wrote:
> I think that California's Public Records Act may have some bearing, limiting
> the restrictions that can be placed on the data by Marin County.
> That Public Records Act seems to indicate that the GIS data is Public Data.
>
> Sierra Club vs. Orange County
> http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/archive/S194708.PDF
>
> http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=gov&group=06001-07000&file=6250-6270
>
>
> C.
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 7:14 AM, Dan S <danstowell+osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Serge,
>>
>> It reads to me as if the "must" is a condition on the use of the name
>> "MarinMap", not a condition on the use of the data.
>>
>> Best
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> 2014-10-31 11:08 GMT+00:00 Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com>:
>> > The minute you use the word "MUST", it's not a request, it's a demand.
>> > If the data was public domain, there would be no restrictions.
>> >
>> > Also, no where on the page does it use the word "Public domain", nor
>> > in any of the data I downloaded, does it have a license listed.
>> >
>> > Therefore it falls back to plain old copyright.
>> >
>> > - Serge
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
>> > <dieterdreist at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 2014-10-31 11:54 GMT+01:00 Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>> So let me explain why it's contradictory. Public domain is a term of
>> >>> art. If something is public domain, you can place *no* restrictions on
>> >>> it. You can't say that there's a requirement for attribution. You can
>> >>> even take a public domain work and claim copyright ownership over it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Serge, by looking at their reply I'm not sure it contains any
>> >> restrictions:
>> >>
>> >>> "You may download public domain data from the MarinMap GIS data
>> >>> download
>> >>> site.
>> >>>
>> >>> You do not need a license to use public domain data.
>> >>>
>> >>> You may acknowledge “MarinMap” as the original source, but you MUST
>> >>> state
>> >>> that MarinMap has no responsibility or warranty regarding data after
>> >>> they
>> >>> have entered the public domain.
>> >>>
>> >>> You may use the legalese from the disclaimer web page to facilitate
>> >>> writing a disclaimer.
>> >>>
>> >>> URL of the disclaimer page:
>> >>> http://www.marinmap.org/dnn/Pages/LegalNoticeDisclaimer.aspx"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> They say you might (even though you don't have to) attribute them, but
>> >> if
>> >> you attribute you must make clear that there is no implied warranty.
>> >>
>> >> On the linked page they also state: "Most map data, especially parcels,
>> >> are
>> >> not survey precise."
>> >> this is a hint that the quality might not be as good as what we
>> >> typically
>> >> have in OSM (at least in areas which haven't suffered from bad imports)
>> >>
>> >> cheers,
>> >> Martin
>> >
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