[Imports] Calgary addresses

Kevin Kenny kevin.b.kenny+osm at gmail.com
Wed Jul 20 14:16:10 UTC 2016


You have a point, I suppose, that 'for all lawful purposes' could
conceivably create an independent cause of action if a downstream user
subsequently breaches the law. Nevertheless, it would create a cause of
action only to the extent that the licensor is harmed by the breach. If I
lend my neighbour Lizzie an axe to cut brush, and Lizzie instead uses it to
murder her parents, I am harmed only to the extent of the loss of the axe
and have no right to recover beyond that. (Unless, somehow, my reputation
is harmed, but most courts take a very dim view of reputational injury
short of direct slander.) The city of Calgary is not harmed directly if
someone uses its address data to commit a crime. If the Queen's Peace is
breached, the Queen's Majesty has ample means of redress and there is no
need for the law to create an independent cause of action for the city.

That said, the wrong that is triggered by the breach of license is
copyright infringement, and most common-law jurisdictions provide for
statutory damages for copyright infringement that are steep enough to carry
a substantial effect in terrorem, whatever the actual likelihood is that
suit would be brought and that the plaintiff would prevail.

In any case, the whole argument is meaningless until the problem of the
indemnification clause is addressed. OSMF cannot indemnify anyone against
misuse of the open data. Those terms are simply unacceptable, and if they
cannot be changed, we must forgo using it.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 07/20/2016 09:54 AM, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > Of course we can exclude unlawful
> > purposes.
>
> No.
>
> > Above says you are allowed to do anything as long as it is
> > legal. Of course you are not allowed to do anything illegal. That's
> > implicit, that's what the laws are for.
>
> No. You are mixing up different levels of law. Yes it is forbidden to do
> illegal things; but it is not *us* who enforce that.
>
> > Of course you are not allowed
> > to use OdBL licensed data to do anything unlawful.
>
> If someone uses OpenStreetMap data to kill someone, then the OSMF cannot
> sue them for breach of license. The person can be prosecuted for
> violating the law, but not sued for breaching the contract.
>
> Upholding the law in your respective country is not a part of what our
> license requires. Other people (e.g. your country) might require it of
> you, but we don't.
>
> If you buy a kitchen knife and then use it to kill your neighbour, this
> doesn't invalidate the sales contract for the kitchen knife.
>
> It is a mistake that many people make. If you sign a contract that says
> you will not do X, and then you do X (in breach of the contract) many
> people will say "that was illegal". But it wasn't illegal, it was just
> violating a contract you had with someone else. These are totally
> different levels - what someone else requires of you in a contract, and
> what your legal system requires of you because you live in the relevant
> jurisdiction.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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