[Imports] [Talk-ca] [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

James james2432 at gmail.com
Mon Oct 24 22:26:07 UTC 2016

I believe Bjenk was kidding when stating he'd be buying a coffee.

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 6:16 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Both the City of Ottawa and the Canadian Federal Government have rules in
> place about bribery and corruption.  Buying a civil servant a coffee these
> days is one of the forbidden activities.  I do trust you are not suggesting
> that illegal methods were used when the data was obtained.
> The use of the particular data concerned was first raised by one of the
> Open Data specialists at Carlton University at a meeting between many
> parties.  Open data guy at the City of Ottawa unfortunately was not present
> but the representatives from the City of Ottawa did say it would be looked
> into.  Later I spoke to them after the meeting and they thought with the
> current climate of cooperation with different government levels there
> should not be a problem.
> The traditional way to gently refuse something is for it to get lost in
> the system.  I haven't seen any signs of that yet.
> I think things have moved forward but perhaps not at the pace everyone
> might like.
> Cheerio John
> On 24 Oct 2016 6:03 pm, "James" <james2432 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bjenk(STATS Can) is communicating/pushing with the the city of Ottawa,
>> even may resolve to offering coffee bribes to be able to host the shared
>> file on open.canada.ca. He's been relentless in his effort to move the
>> project forward, but as most Canadian gouvernment entities it moves at a
>> snails pace as it is stuck in bureaucratic hell.
>> On Oct 24, 2016 5:38 PM, "Stewart C. Russell" <scruss at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Christoph,
>>> > Could you please clarify what the alleged source of the building data
>>> to
>>> > be imported is?
>>> Yes, as far as I understand it, at least: these data to be imported were
>>> given to a group of OSM contributors by the City of Ottawa. They have
>>> explicit permission to include it in OSM from the City. The only place
>>> you can inspect the data is on the contributors' own hosting sites, as
>>> the city doesn't host it anywhere. Details of the licence and
>>> permissions are on the Ottawa import information page.
>>> > What is shown in
>>> >
>>> > https://gist.github.com/scruss/5a3f469c47df5d27fdba28258c273b45
>>> >
>>> > does not match geometry-wise.
>>> I know. That link was derived from the city's own topo database from
>>> 2011, which *is* published on the city's open data website. I have a
>>> feeling that the city doesn't want to give away their 2016 topo database
>>> — not realising that by allowing the 2016 building outlines to be
>>> imported into OSM, they kind of *are* giving away the current database
>>> ...
>>> The public 2011 data set is cut into 2×1 km tiles, slicing through
>>> buildings on the border. There are no common attributes which would
>>> allow repair, as the data is packaged in AutoCAD DWG files.
>>> So the options are:
>>> 1. Import from a current source that we have OSM contributors' word that
>>> was provided by the city under a permissive licence, or
>>> 2. Import from a data set that is published on the City website but is
>>> possibly outdated, is in a horrible file format, has no documentation or
>>> metadata (apart from the licence) and would need a large amount of
>>> cleanup to be remotely usable.
>>> If [2] is the only option, I have a feeling that the Canadian federal
>>> government, the City of Ottawa and Open North (the open data advocacy
>>> group providing coding and community liaison support) would be strongly
>>> disinclined to work with or support OSM again. Worst of all, the tiny
>>> Canadian OSM community might lose some very dedicated mappers if this
>>> process puts them off contributing again.
>>> cheers,
>>>  Stewart
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