[Imports] RFC for City of Basel Suburb Import

Johannes Singler johannes at singler.name
Fri Dec 29 16:47:50 UTC 2017

Hi folks,

due to conflicts coming in on an hourly basis (due to touching the 
borders of Switzerland, Germany and France), I have uploaded the 
changeset already, with boundary=administrative for now (for keeping the 
change minimal).

We continue the discussion on on tagging and all, I can still easily 
change that.  The important thing is that the changed segments are in, 
as those caused the conflicts in the relations.


Am 29.12.2017 um 14:32 schrieb Johannes Singler:
> Hi Rafael,
> thanks for your feedback.
> Am 29.12.2017 um 06:22 schrieb Rafael Avila Coya:
>> Hi, Johannes:
>> Thank you for this work.
>> I have just small questions about the import.
>> I am not swiss, so I am not going to doubt that suburbs don't have 
>> administrative significance, as you say in the wiki. But a bit further 
>> down in the wiki you say "We will not import the neighborhoods 
>> ("Wohnbezirke"), as some of their names are not familiar to the 
>> general public, but seem to exist for administrative statistical 
>> purposes only."
>> So my understanding is that neighborhoods have some administrative 
>> use, and so I find it a bit strange that suburbs, that are higher 
>> level than neighborhoods, don't have any administrative interest (not 
>> even statistical).
> Both are used for statistical purposes by the administration, the 
> suburbs even more so.  However, there exist no political institutions 
> for suburbs/neighborhoods (at least not consistently), that was the main 
> argument on the Swiss mailing list.  But maybe we over-interpret the 
> term "administrative" here, it does not read "political" after all.
> @Simon, what do you think?
> In Bern, we have admin_levels both 9 and 10.  Okay, for 9, there exist 
> "Quartierkommissionen" as political institutions (except for the inner 
> city), but I don't know any political institution for admin_level 10 
> (e.g. Breitenrain).
>> Also, in the boundary=administrative wiki [1] it gives admin_level=10 
>> for neighborhoods in Switzerland, so it might be admin_level=9 or so 
>> according to the wiki?
> Sure, admin_level=9 would be the perfect fit.
>> In case of continuing with that tagging, I guess the suburb segments 
>> should have a boundary=suburb tag (they come with no tags in the osm 
>> file you share).
> True, I forgot that.  However, the suburbs share many segments with 
> higher-level administrative boundaries, should those then have the tag 
> twice, or two semicolon-separated values for the key?  One more argument 
> for using boundary=administrative, it seems.
>> boundary=suburb, as a new tag, should be documented in the OSM wiki, 
>> in case it's finally decided to continue with that tagging schema.
> Well, it says "    All commonly used values according to Taginfo" there, 
> and "suburb" is used in other places already.  "statistical" would be an 
> alternative that is used even more often already.
> Overall, the simplest would be to just use boundary=administrative 
> instead of boundary/place=suburb.
> Another argument against place/boundary=suburb is that the suburbs do 
> not appear in address searches, e.g. "Terwijde" does not appear for this 
> search:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=oskar%20nedbalhof#map=19/52.10646/5.03946&layers=N 
> Johannes
>> Cheers, and have an excellent end of the year,
>> Rafael.
>> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative
>> On 28/12/17 14:42, Johannes Singler wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> after discussing this on the Swiss OSM mailing list (talk-ch), I 
>>> hereby announce the import of the suburbs of the city of Basel in 
>>> Switzerland.
>>> The one-time import is manual and comprises 19 suburbs.  It touches 
>>> three country borders, though.
>>> The import wiki page can be found here:
>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/City_of_Basel_Suburb_Import>
>>> I'm a local mapper living in the area.
>>> Looking forward to your comments,
>>> Johannes
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Imports mailing list
>>> Imports at openstreetmap.org
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