From claire.halleux at hotosm.org  Mon Aug  3 19:34:32 2020
From: claire.halleux at hotosm.org (Claire Halleux)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 20:34:32 +0100
Subject: [Imports] Buildings import (DRC & Uganda)
In-Reply-To: <CACfGQQZZhFB11G9ExCwzBhfAQRsS7ayRyBH80PjWgY12w7fMuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACfGQQYiJLFmCHN0QQwY9q44GwpYtCUMDZV-GSVsK0_Od4nW_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ba062e18-4068-7825-f206-359b6b346241@technomancy.org>
 <dae16669-2849-8c66-5c74-c9b2a20b0730@gmail.com>
 <CACfGQQZZhFB11G9ExCwzBhfAQRsS7ayRyBH80PjWgY12w7fMuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACfGQQb55zZE1D2kJPSiK0n4vswFFY8KyLHOpPGCvvK=xhMyBA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi list,

Thanks again for the feedback.
We are now working on the tasks preparation to effectively start this
import.

Cheers
Claire

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:27 PM Claire Halleux <claire.halleux at hotosm.org>
wrote:

> Hi Rory,
>
> In case you'd like downloading the data samples outside the tasking
> manager, you'll have access to 2 files through the links [1] and [2] listed
> on the wikipage.
>
> Three of the 4 tasks marked as done in project 8720 were marked as so
> because they didn't include any building to be imported (I still need to
> fine tune the task creation process to avoid such empty tasks). The last
> one was marked as done by a local mapper trying out the workflow. All
> participants to the task trials have been informed that any unexpected
> uploads would be reverted until the discussion on lists is over.
>
> There are currently wider efforts on open algorithms to generate such
> building footprints. However since these ones have been extracted through
> proprietary algorithms, the code used isn't accessible.
>
> Claire
>
> [1] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EbZoQYutCr4WVysE61LwXih_ilyjNumU/view
> [2] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tTrnTUcBsOe25YmF4pe62QUzyvBFdRtq/view
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:50 PM Rafael Avila Coya <ravilacoya at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Rory:
>>
>> I've also read, not very thoroughly, the wiki, and the timeout problem
>> maybe due to you not having changed the socket.timeout.read JOSM option
>> to 90 ?
>>
>> As for the imagery, it says explicitly that dedicated permission to use
>> it for digitizing in OSM is granted.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rafael.
>>
>> O 20/07/20 ás 15:40, Rory McCann escribiu:
>> > Hi Claire,
>> >
>> > Can you please link to the data you would like to import? It's not on
>> > the wiki page, I tried to follow the instructions to map a square, and
>> > the server (
>> >
>> http://build.osmsharp.com:815/data/4733/4134/13/DRC_AI_buildings_import_project8720.osm
>> > ) request timed out.
>> >
>> > Why does one of the tasks show 4% imported already?
>> > https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/8720
>> >
>> > Can you please link to the code that generated that data? That could be
>> > useful for many others too.
>> >
>> > I tried to start mapping for
>> > https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/8720/tasks and it says the data is
>> > CC-BY-NC. Is the licence for this data OK? -NC data cannot be imported
>> > into OSM.
>> >
>> > Rory
>> >
>> > On 20/07/2020 14:02, Claire Halleux wrote:
>> >> Hello list,
>> >>
>> >> I'm contacting you to get feedback on an import prepared by HOT as
>> >> part of a project combining data extracted in an automated way and
>> >> information collected on the ground[1].
>> >>
>> >> This import consists of around 3.8 millions building footprints in
>> >> north-eastern DRC and 2.7 millions building footprints in western
>> >> Uganda. The data was extracted from high-resolution imagery provided
>> >> by Maxar over the period from 2015 to 2019.
>> >>
>> >> You can check the proposed import wiki here:
>> >>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Eastern_DRC_%26_Western_Uganda_Maxar-Ecopia_Buildings_Import
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A subpage containing the practical details of the proposed methodology
>> >> to perform this import has also been developed [2]. Both pages are
>> >> available in English and French to ease exchanges with contributors in
>> >> both countries. Online discussions have been taking place since the
>> >> end of June with both communities through calls, WhatsApp and mailing
>> >> lists.
>> >>
>> >> We are welcoming any comments, questions, or issues you would have
>> >> regarding this import process.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >> Claire
>> >>
>> >> [1]
>> >>
>> https://www.hotosm.org/projects/leveraging-ml-generated-building-data-and-motorcycle-mapping-in-the-drc-and-uganda-to-enhance-humanitarian-response/
>> >> <
>> https://www.hotosm.org/projects/leveraging-ml-generated-building-data-and-motorcycle-mapping-in-the-drc-and-uganda-to-enhance-humanitarian-response/>
>>
>> >>
>> >> [2]
>> >>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Eastern_DRC_%26_Western_Uganda_Maxar-Ecopia_Buildings_Import/Workflow
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Imports mailing list
>> >> Imports at openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Imports mailing list
>> > Imports at openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Imports mailing list
>> Imports at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200803/f90c4cf0/attachment.htm>

From thekingofravens at disroot.org  Sun Aug  9 10:53:55 2020
From: thekingofravens at disroot.org (Raven King)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 03:53:55 -0700
Subject: [Imports] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston County, WA, USA
Message-ID: <02a6b0712683aa3d6932cdc4a55585a21fbb2b39.camel@disroot.org>

Hello:

I discovered that Thurston County, WA publishes a database of addresses
stored as gps pins inside a shape file. 
The data can be found here:
https://gisdata-thurston.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/thurston-address-points-tcomm?geometry=-122.915%2C47.023%2C-122.914%2C47.023

The license can be seen where it has a link labeled "Custom License"
next to a picture of a lock. I didn't see anything in there that would
prohibit our use of this, but extra eyes are needed. 

The database has 128,639 addresses. My goal would be to import the
entirety of it into OSM, as Thurston county has very few addresses in
OSM. They would be imported as points, since the database has them
stored as points.

The caveats I see are as follows:
* The database probably has some addresses that are wrong. While
everything I could verify has been correct, I only checked about 100
addresses. 
* There may be some overlap with buildings that already had addresses
entered. Since Thurston County has very few addresses in OSM, I don't
see this being a huge issue.

I have never done an import, and I do not know what the process for
both consensus and the actual import would be.

Sincerely,
Raven King



From smocktaylor at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 14:33:48 2020
From: smocktaylor at gmail.com (smocktaylor at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 08:33:48 -0600
Subject: [Imports] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston County, WA,
 USA
In-Reply-To: <02a6b0712683aa3d6932cdc4a55585a21fbb2b39.camel@disroot.org>
References: <02a6b0712683aa3d6932cdc4a55585a21fbb2b39.camel@disroot.org>
Message-ID: <c1c619eb2e9bf591db8a76175901347af1f0d790.camel@gmail.com>

Possible issues with the license:
* "The Data is collected from various sources and will change over time
and without notice." (In other words, they may not own the copyright to
the data.)
* "Users are not authorized to license, re-license, assign, release
publish, transfer, sell or otherwise make available any portion of
these Data, or any information from GIS data derived from these
Datasets, to a third party in any format revealing Thurston County as
the source of the data." (I am not a lawyer, but this seems to be
counter-intuitive. They don't want to be credited? This is highly
unusual, and merits clarification by itself.)

There are probably some other things in the license that would make it
difficult/impossible to use in OSM.

The best thing you can do is reach out to the county and see if they
are willing to give explicit permissions for use in OpenStreetMap. It
might take them some time to respond, and they may say "no". If they
do, you will have to do an actual survey -- StreetComplete (Android)
could be useful for this, if you don't mind taking a walk. You'll just
have to draw in the main building first.

Good luck,
Taylor

On Sun, 2020-08-09 at 03:53 -0700, Raven King wrote:
> Hello:
> 
> I discovered that Thurston County, WA publishes a database of
> addresses
> stored as gps pins inside a shape file. 
> The data can be found here:
> https://gisdata-thurston.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/thurston-address-points-tcomm?geometry=-122.915%2C47.023%2C-122.914%2C47.023
> 
> The license can be seen where it has a link labeled "Custom License"
> next to a picture of a lock. I didn't see anything in there that
> would
> prohibit our use of this, but extra eyes are needed. 
> 
> The database has 128,639 addresses. My goal would be to import the
> entirety of it into OSM, as Thurston county has very few addresses in
> OSM. They would be imported as points, since the database has them
> stored as points.
> 
> The caveats I see are as follows:
> * The database probably has some addresses that are wrong. While
> everything I could verify has been correct, I only checked about 100
> addresses. 
> * There may be some overlap with buildings that already had addresses
> entered. Since Thurston County has very few addresses in OSM, I don't
> see this being a huge issue.
> 
> I have never done an import, and I do not know what the process for
> both consensus and the actual import would be.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Raven King
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Imports mailing list
> Imports at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 866 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200809/3b461105/attachment.sig>

From clifford at snowandsnow.us  Mon Aug 10 22:46:51 2020
From: clifford at snowandsnow.us (Clifford Snow)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:46:51 -0700
Subject: [Imports] [Talk-us-pugetsound] Potential Import of Addresses
 for Thurston County, WA, USA
In-Reply-To: <CAFG37-s4Lx4R16CehtBvX8AFOcvtVf1Z8NZyHps-KDB79-bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02a6b0712683aa3d6932cdc4a55585a21fbb2b39.camel@disroot.org>
 <CAFG37-s4Lx4R16CehtBvX8AFOcvtVf1Z8NZyHps-KDB79-bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADAoPLpR-YnQRoiDcs+B+J39oYwYO67nrkKaZQz0+tP4arbLCw@mail.gmail.com>

Raven,
As Pat said, I've done a bunch of imports. Currently I'm importing
buildings and addresses for Marysville, WA. Because the building footprints
aren't the best quality, it will take a while.

As far as the licensing goes, I'm sure if we contact the GIS manager we can
get written approval to use the data. Counties and cities are pretty open
to sharing their data with OSM. In fact my Marysville import is being done
for the city. I attempted to look up the GIS manager but their web page
doesn't show one. I'm sure I can get one if we need it. The county does
have both addresses and building outlines. I'd encourage you to consider
adding both. But, Thurston county has 129K addresses and 146K building
outlines. I'd recommend doing the import in smaller chunks like cities or
neighborhoods.

As for the process, once I've made sure the data is in good shape, I split
it into small chunks, usually voting districts (even though we don't use
them in the state anymore - thank you mail in voting) The data is then fed
into OSM US's Tasking Manager for import using JOSM.

If you'd like to experience what it's like to use the Tasking Manager
contact me via email to import some of Marysville.

Best,
Clifford


On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 5:18 PM Pat Tressel <ptressel at myuw.net> wrote:

> Raven --
>
> Our local import expert is Clifford Snow ( clifford at snowandsnow.us ) --
> he shepherded through the import of house numbers and building footprints
> for King County.  What he did was to split up the data into more manageable
> pieces, and then put out a call for folks who live in each area to do the
> import "by hand".  My memory is hazy, but the process was something like:
> We'd open the area in JOSM, then open the file with the house numbers and
> building polygons as a layer.  We'd select and add a few at a time, after
> checking that they were ok.  If you have a local OSM Meetup group, you
> could rope them in to do the work.  Or, perhaps CUGOS folks could help.
>
> -- Pat
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-us-pugetsound mailing list
> Talk-us-pugetsound at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us-pugetsound
>


-- 
@osm_washington
www.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200810/3829dd53/attachment.htm>

From thekingofravens at disroot.org  Mon Aug 10 22:56:11 2020
From: thekingofravens at disroot.org (Raven King)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:56:11 -0700
Subject: [Imports] [Talk-us-pugetsound] Potential Import of Addresses
 for Thurston County, WA, USA
In-Reply-To: <CADAoPLpR-YnQRoiDcs+B+J39oYwYO67nrkKaZQz0+tP4arbLCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02a6b0712683aa3d6932cdc4a55585a21fbb2b39.camel@disroot.org>
 <CAFG37-s4Lx4R16CehtBvX8AFOcvtVf1Z8NZyHps-KDB79-bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADAoPLpR-YnQRoiDcs+B+J39oYwYO67nrkKaZQz0+tP4arbLCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68b3a5d9be714b057cd52e47652107d57e03ad3f.camel@disroot.org>

Alright. I will definitely reach out to them. If they give me
permission I will be in touch about learning to use the tasking
manager.

Sincerely,
Raven King

On Mon, 2020-08-10 at 15:46 -0700, Clifford Snow wrote:
> Raven,
> As Pat said, I've done a bunch of imports. Currently I'm importing
> buildings and addresses for Marysville, WA. Because the building
> footprints aren't the best quality, it will take a while.
> 
> As far as the licensing goes, I'm sure if we contact the GIS manager
> we can get written approval to use the data. Counties and cities are
> pretty open to sharing their data with OSM. In fact my Marysville
> import is being done for the city. I attempted to look up the GIS
> manager but their web page doesn't show one. I'm sure I can get one
> if we need it. The county does have both addresses and building
> outlines. I'd encourage you to consider adding both. But, Thurston
> county has 129K addresses and 146K building outlines. I'd recommend
> doing the import in smaller chunks like cities or neighborhoods. 
> 
> As for the process, once I've made sure the data is in good shape, I
> split it into small chunks, usually voting districts (even though we
> don't use them in the state anymore - thank you mail in voting) The
> data is then fed into OSM US's Tasking Manager for import using
> JOSM. 
> 
> If you'd like to experience what it's like to use the Tasking Manager
> contact me via email to import some of Marysville. 
> 
> Best,
> Clifford
> 
> 
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 5:18 PM Pat Tressel <ptressel at myuw.net> wrote:
> > Raven --
> > 
> > Our local import expert is Clifford Snow ( clifford at snowandsnow.us
> > ) -- he shepherded through the import of house numbers and building footprints for King County.  What he did was to split up the data into more manageable pieces, and then put out a call for folks who live in each area to do the import "by hand".  My memory is hazy, but the process was something like:  We'd open the area in JOSM, then open the file with the house numbers and building polygons as a layer.  We'd select and add a few at a time, after checking that they were ok.  If you have a local OSM Meetup group, you could rope them in to do the work.  Or, perhaps CUGOS folks could help.
> > 
> > -- Pat
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-us-pugetsound mailing list
> > Talk-us-pugetsound at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us-pugetsound
> 
> 



From jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org  Fri Aug 14 09:23:21 2020
From: jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org (Jorieke Vyncke)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:23:21 +0000
Subject: [Imports] Import building footprints Lopa & Lingo
In-Reply-To: <AM6PR07MB4695ED97E0D25F5485818181A7790@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM6PR07MB4695EA863821821070A9A9ADA7670@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM6PR07MB4695AD2EF8445A44884312D7A77C0@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <70739684.5006275.1595000201129@mail.yahoo.com>
 <AM6PR07MB4695A09BD854F3DE96909F0EA77C0@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM6PR07MB469592B3884012DBD54E1794A77B0@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <MChECov--3-2@tutanota.com>
 <AM6PR07MB4695B1406B9F37DA00A21EF1A7780@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAJ6DwMA=5SR=3pOA689FR-P3=PtAy=eY9GDGOOa+whEwTp9T_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <MClFbOO--7-2@tutanota.com>
 <AM6PR07MB46954ACA38A20824626B523DA7790@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <MCpwDP5--3-2@tutanota.com>
 <CACfGQQZaYXRa=+S5aYAW8DwzWgQrFssL8sFLydqDVpY0URsiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AM6PR07MB4695ED97E0D25F5485818181A7790@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AM6PR07MB4695A65161C4BDB4E4543251A7400@AM6PR07MB4695.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Dear list,
Just to keep you up to date, we’ve got limited access to the imagery and we’ll just use the imagery for the mapping. So it sounds like we didn’t need this whole import process in the end.
Best wishes,
Jorieke

Jorieke VYNCKE
Missing Maps Coordinator & OCA GIS Focal Point
Manson Unit - MSF UK


[MSF_dual_English_CMYK]
MSF UK, 10 Furnival Street, London, EC4A 1AB
www.msf.org.uk<http://www.msf.org.uk/>  ||  +44 (0)20 7404 6600 || UK Charity Reg. No. 10265888
Don't print if you don't need


From: Jorieke Vyncke <jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org>
Sent: 22 July 2020 12:39
To: imports at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Imports] Import building footprints Lopa & Lingo

Thanks Claire, I’ll try to get that done.
Best, Jorieke



From: Claire Halleux <claire.halleux at hotosm.org<mailto:claire.halleux at hotosm.org>>
Sent: 22 July 2020 11:33
To: Mateusz Konieczny <matkoniecz at tutanota.com<mailto:matkoniecz at tutanota.com>>
Cc: Jorieke Vyncke <jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org<mailto:jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org>>; imports at openstreetmap.org<mailto:imports at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Imports] Import building footprints Lopa & Lingo

Hi Jorieke,

Would the situation change if myself and the few volunteers working on uploading the data could have access to the initial imagery? I think that might be maybe possible…  Of course if there are experienced mappers here who would like to help out with the import, please let me know, you’re always welcome to join the effort!
Yes, it would help a lot to better trust the data if at least you or a few contributors could visualize the initial imagery.
I had previously identified a few places which seemed more or less suspicious in my point of view, happy to share them with you if you can request some kind of (even limited) access to the imagery.

Claire


From: Mateusz Konieczny via Imports <imports at openstreetmap.org<mailto:imports at openstreetmap.org>>
Sent: 21 July 2020 13:04
Cc: imports at openstreetmap.org<mailto:imports at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Imports] Import building footprints Lopa & Lingo



As I understand, the plan is to load the buildings in manageable sets from the tasking manager,

and person doing verification will skip solely clearly bizarre geometries and assume that everything

else is correct.



I think that given presence of nonsense geometries means that seemingly OK ones cannot

be assumed to be valid ones, and only verified ones should be imported.



Jul 21, 2020, 11:53 by winfixit at gmail.com<mailto:winfixit at gmail.com>:

I get the impression Mateusz thinks the import will consist of an automatic dump of the data, whereas the actual plan is to load the buildings in manageable sets from the tasking manager and then a person does the verification, maybe by using the todo plugin in JOSM?



Polyglot



On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:25 AM Jorieke Vyncke <jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org<mailto:jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org>> wrote:

Hi Mateusz,



Thanks for your feedback!

There are really not that many of this type of buildings in the dataset, most of the buildings are nicely squared or circulized. By the manual verification of the data, we’ll of course compare and adapt the building data with the latest imagery that we have available on OpenStreetMap – the Maxar Premium Imagery. We’ll correct with help of that imagery and of course in all cases nicely square corners of the weird shapes. There will really not be a ‘soul-crushing cleanup’ needed after this import.



Would you rather propose to leave these buildings out? We could do that as well, but I would prefer not to, since this means we will have an incomplete dataset in the area. I’d rather choose for correcting the shapes with help of available imagery.



Best wishes,



Jorieke







From: Mateusz Konieczny via Imports <imports at openstreetmap.org<mailto:imports at openstreetmap.org>>
Sent: 20 July 2020 18:20
Cc: 'imports at openstreetmap.org<mailto:imports at openstreetmap.org>' <imports at openstreetmap.org<mailto:imports at openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [Imports] Import building footprints Lopa & Lingo









Jul 20, 2020, 18:18 by jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org<mailto:jorieke.vyncke at london.msf.org>:

Q: Some buildings have strange trapezoidal shapes, how are you planning to correct them without accessing the imagery?

There are not that many of these. Since we are not able to check back with the original imagery, we’ll have to trust the dataset we want to import for this and will upload the data. Of course by looking at the data manually we would be able to spot areas with real issues with this and then we can still decide to not upload that data.

So clearly suspicious shapes such as this trapeizodal ones will be skipped and

everything else without blatant mistakes will be imported without verification?



That seems to be a bad idea and I am opposed to such import. It will just burden

any community of mappers that may appear with soul-crushing cleanup.

_______________________________________________

Imports mailing list

Imports at openstreetmap.org<mailto:Imports at openstreetmap.org>

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports



_______________________________________________
Imports mailing list
Imports at openstreetmap.org<mailto:Imports at openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200814/ab4f052b/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2312 bytes
Desc: image002.jpg
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200814/ab4f052b/attachment-0001.jpg>

From steven.hirschorn at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 23:04:55 2020
From: steven.hirschorn at gmail.com (Steven Hirschorn)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 00:04:55 +0100
Subject: [Imports] Proposal: Imports of EV Charging Points in London
Message-ID: <CAKRE0yreDBi+yENeEskAt4gM5Htj_ar+PjvEgVBN54caLvDyeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I'm hoping to import a dataset of EV vehicle charging points in London.
I've created a wiki page here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SourceLondon

It's the first time I'll have tried an import. I have used JOSM for a long
time, and know a bit of Python, and already have permission from the data
owner to use the data. I'd welcome any feedback and help on what I should
do next.

Steven
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200818/77ad4280/attachment.htm>

From attil2000 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 12:04:00 2020
From: attil2000 at gmail.com (Kun Attila)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:04:00 +0200
Subject: [Imports] Importing data from alltheplaces.xyz
Message-ID: <3f7790c3-10a0-213d-01e5-30cf24f024c1@gmail.com>

Dear OSM community,

I've been mapping Moundsville, WV nowadays (one of my friends live there 
so i chose that location). I'm ottwiz on OSM 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ottwiz) from Hungary. Sometimes i 
didn't know how to publish imports correctly  from 
https://www.alltheplaces.xyz/( it has CC-0 with waiver license), because 
i never imported anything. I already talked in US slack, and they saw no 
problems with importing these data, just they warned me they can't be 
100% accurate, because the "spider" bot takes the data from websites 
that publish their coordinates on a map, and sometimes it can be like 
100-200 (or more) yards off the place. Without further ado, I only 
imported those which are 100% accurate. (checked on other maps, that's 
why, but of course there is some that is on correct position on Google, 
but not in this database, so i omitted those ones, because taking stuff 
from Google is not complying with OSM rules). I also put a "Taco Bell" 
store, which address is 103 Lafayette Ave, Moundsville, WV 26041. It's 
between two shops (which have 101 and 105 Lafayette Ave respectively), 
so it was easy to guess the location.

It's a thing that I already finished my importing, just someone told me 
if i didn't go to the location, I shouldn't use "survey" for source. OK, 
i got it.
So, if nobody has any questions, i'd leave the already imported stuff 
alone(it's like 15 shops around Lafayette avenue, changesets which 
contain them: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89655873 ; 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89742498); , and open a case in 
the catalogue and a small wiki page that i did this import on OSM. 
Sorry, just this is my first import, so i didn't know i had to take 
these steps.

Ottwiz



From rory at technomancy.org  Sat Aug 22 15:41:32 2020
From: rory at technomancy.org (Rory McCann)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 17:41:32 +0200
Subject: [Imports] licence? | Re:  Importing data from alltheplaces.xyz
In-Reply-To: <3f7790c3-10a0-213d-01e5-30cf24f024c1@gmail.com>
References: <3f7790c3-10a0-213d-01e5-30cf24f024c1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26641fe7-5f77-6098-7d26-6fe64e07d16f@technomancy.org>

That site is “A growing set of web scrapers designed to output 
consistent geodata about as many places of business in the world as 
possible.”

I don't think it's CC0 licenced. It's a collection of other databases. 
Have they gotten permission from all the business that they scrape that 
they can licence this resultant data as CC0? I don't think so.

They could claim the data is CC0, or that the moon is made of cheese, 
but that doesn't mean the data is CC0.

I don't think you can import this.

On 22.08.20 14:04, Kun Attila wrote:
> Dear OSM community,
> 
> I've been mapping Moundsville, WV nowadays (one of my friends live there 
> so i chose that location). I'm ottwiz on OSM 
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ottwiz) from Hungary. Sometimes i 
> didn't know how to publish imports correctly  from 
> https://www.alltheplaces.xyz/( it has CC-0 with waiver license), because 
> i never imported anything. I already talked in US slack, and they saw no 
> problems with importing these data, just they warned me they can't be 
> 100% accurate, because the "spider" bot takes the data from websites 
> that publish their coordinates on a map, and sometimes it can be like 
> 100-200 (or more) yards off the place. Without further ado, I only 
> imported those which are 100% accurate. (checked on other maps, that's 
> why, but of course there is some that is on correct position on Google, 
> but not in this database, so i omitted those ones, because taking stuff 
> from Google is not complying with OSM rules). I also put a "Taco Bell" 
> store, which address is 103 Lafayette Ave, Moundsville, WV 26041. It's 
> between two shops (which have 101 and 105 Lafayette Ave respectively), 
> so it was easy to guess the location.
> 
> It's a thing that I already finished my importing, just someone told me 
> if i didn't go to the location, I shouldn't use "survey" for source. OK, 
> i got it.
> So, if nobody has any questions, i'd leave the already imported stuff 
> alone(it's like 15 shops around Lafayette avenue, changesets which 
> contain them: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89655873 ; 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89742498); , and open a case in 
> the catalogue and a small wiki page that i did this import on OSM. 
> Sorry, just this is my first import, so i didn't know i had to take 
> these steps.
> 
> Ottwiz
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Imports mailing list
> Imports at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports


From minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us  Sat Aug 22 16:49:22 2020
From: minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us (Minh Nguyen)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:49:22 -0700
Subject: [Imports] licence? | Re: Importing data from alltheplaces.xyz
In-Reply-To: <26641fe7-5f77-6098-7d26-6fe64e07d16f@technomancy.org>
References: <3f7790c3-10a0-213d-01e5-30cf24f024c1@gmail.com>
 <26641fe7-5f77-6098-7d26-6fe64e07d16f@technomancy.org>
Message-ID: <rhriaj$s40$1@ciao.gmane.io>

Thanks for taking a look, Rory. I think we cleared up the 
misunderstanding in OSMUS Slack. Kun was interested in adding businesses 
to this undermapped area, thought it was necessary to use 
alltheplaces.xyz as a primary source rather than a corroborating one, 
and unfortunately thought an "import" was the only way to go about it.

It's kind of ironic, because the U.S. has a cottage industry of 
businesses that scrape business listings exactly like this and charge 
big bucks to use it in search engines, knowing that copyright law 
doesn't have anything on them. But OSM has additional sensitivities that 
I'd hate to burden a well-meaning small-town America mapper with.

The good news is that -- to my pleasant surprise -- there's decent 
Mapillary and OpenStreetCam coverage in this corner of West Virginia. So 
Kun will be able to improve OSM's coverage of Moundsville without going 
down the rabbit hole of an import process.

Vào lúc 08:41 2020-08-22, Rory McCann đã viết:
> That site is “A growing set of web scrapers designed to output 
> consistent geodata about as many places of business in the world as 
> possible.”
> 
> I don't think it's CC0 licenced. It's a collection of other databases. 
> Have they gotten permission from all the business that they scrape that 
> they can licence this resultant data as CC0? I don't think so.
> 
> They could claim the data is CC0, or that the moon is made of cheese, 
> but that doesn't mean the data is CC0.
> 
> I don't think you can import this.
> 
> On 22.08.20 14:04, Kun Attila wrote:
>> Dear OSM community,
>>
>> I've been mapping Moundsville, WV nowadays (one of my friends live 
>> there so i chose that location). I'm ottwiz on OSM 
>> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ottwiz) from Hungary. Sometimes i 
>> didn't know how to publish imports correctly  from 
>> https://www.alltheplaces.xyz/( it has CC-0 with waiver license), 
>> because i never imported anything. I already talked in US slack, and 
>> they saw no problems with importing these data, just they warned me 
>> they can't be 100% accurate, because the "spider" bot takes the data 
>> from websites that publish their coordinates on a map, and sometimes 
>> it can be like 100-200 (or more) yards off the place. Without further 
>> ado, I only imported those which are 100% accurate. (checked on other 
>> maps, that's why, but of course there is some that is on correct 
>> position on Google, but not in this database, so i omitted those ones, 
>> because taking stuff from Google is not complying with OSM rules). I 
>> also put a "Taco Bell" store, which address is 103 Lafayette Ave, 
>> Moundsville, WV 26041. It's between two shops (which have 101 and 105 
>> Lafayette Ave respectively), so it was easy to guess the location.
>>
>> It's a thing that I already finished my importing, just someone told 
>> me if i didn't go to the location, I shouldn't use "survey" for 
>> source. OK, i got it.
>> So, if nobody has any questions, i'd leave the already imported stuff 
>> alone(it's like 15 shops around Lafayette avenue, changesets which 
>> contain them: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89655873 ; 
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89742498); , and open a case 
>> in the catalogue and a small wiki page that i did this import on OSM. 
>> Sorry, just this is my first import, so i didn't know i had to take 
>> these steps.
>>
>> Ottwiz
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Imports mailing list
>> Imports at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Imports mailing list
> Imports at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports


-- 
minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us



From minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us  Sat Aug 22 16:54:40 2020
From: minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us (Minh Nguyen)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:54:40 -0700
Subject: [Imports] licence? | Re: Importing data from alltheplaces.xyz
In-Reply-To: <rhriaj$s40$1@ciao.gmane.io>
References: <3f7790c3-10a0-213d-01e5-30cf24f024c1@gmail.com>
 <26641fe7-5f77-6098-7d26-6fe64e07d16f@technomancy.org>
 <rhriaj$s40$1@ciao.gmane.io>
Message-ID: <4ea3fdcd-07ff-38ac-109d-e23dfcc08d07@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us>

Vào lúc 09:49 2020-08-22, Minh Nguyen đã viết:
> The good news is that -- to my pleasant surprise -- there's decent 
> Mapillary and OpenStreetCam coverage in this corner of West Virginia. So 
> Kun will be able to improve OSM's coverage of Moundsville without going 
> down the rabbit hole of an import process.

(This should have said Attila, not Kun. My apologies for getting your 
name wrong, Attila!)

-- 
minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us



From dieterdreist at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 17:04:21 2020
From: dieterdreist at gmail.com (Martin Koppenhoefer)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:04:21 +0200
Subject: [Imports] licence? | Re:  Importing data from alltheplaces.xyz
In-Reply-To: <26641fe7-5f77-6098-7d26-6fe64e07d16f@technomancy.org>
References: <26641fe7-5f77-6098-7d26-6fe64e07d16f@technomancy.org>
Message-ID: <3E4D49D3-538F-400B-B1FE-8BBBD245A684@gmail.com>



sent from a phone

> On 22. Aug 2020, at 17:43, Rory McCann <rory at technomancy.org> wrote:
> 
> They could claim the data is CC0, or that the moon is made of cheese, but that doesn't mean the data is CC0.


cc0 says that the data could be protected: 


„ Waiver. To the greatest extent permitted by, but not in contravention of, applicable law, Affirmer hereby overtly, fully, permanently, irrevocably and unconditionally waives, abandons, and surrenders all of Affirmer's Copyright and Related Rights and associated claims and causes of action, whether now known or unknown (including existing as well as future claims and causes of action), in the Work ...“

Note, it says Affirmer‘s rights

and later on:

“
Affirmer offers the Work as-is and makes no representations or warranties of any kind concerning the Work, express, implied, statutory or otherwise, including without limitation warranties of title, merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, non infringement, or the absence of latent or other defects, accuracy, or the present or absence of errors, whether or not discoverable, all to the greatest extent permissible under applicable law.
Affirmer disclaims responsibility for clearing rights of other persons that may apply to the Work or any use thereof, including without limitation any person's Copyright and Related Rights in the Work. Further, Affirmer disclaims responsibility for obtaining any necessary consents, permissions or other rights required for any use of the Work.

I.e. it is good for nothing if other people’s rights are contained in the work.

Cheers Martin 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200822/56438f35/attachment.htm>

From osm at lepiller.eu  Sat Aug 22 16:40:54 2020
From: osm at lepiller.eu (Julien Lepiller)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:40:54 +0200
Subject: [Imports] Import WestCOG building footprints in south-west
 Connecticut
Message-ID: <20200822184037.37aab793@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>

Hi!

With other contributors in Connecticut, we would like to import
building footprints. We have evaluated different data sources, and
concluded that no Connecticut-wide sources were usable without a lot of
manual work to fix building geometry.

We found that the WestCOG has very accurate building footprint data on
its territory (south west Connecticut), available online and with a
compatible license (CC0):
http://data.westcog.org:8080/GIS_data/Buildings.gdb.zip
That's 513,141 buildings, and 296,423 building parts in some of them,
that cover this territory:
https://westcog.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/WestCOG_Locus_Map-e1439920850177-790x1024.jpg

Other COGs unfortunately don't share this data online. We hope that a
successful import could be a convincing argument for other COGs to open
their data.

We have documented our current plan at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Connecticut/Western_COG_Building_Import
on the wiki.

We have contacted local mappers of this part of
Connecticut (we are based in and around New Haven, not is south-west
Connecticut), with no negative feedback and 2-3 positive responses. We
have created a process to convert the data from WestCOG to OSM tags and
files that can easily be loaded in JOSM.

We have never done an import before, so we'd appreciate any advice on
how to properly do the import. From our reading the wiki, we should use
a separate user to import the data. Is that one shared user for the
import, or one user for each person importing data?

We have identified potential issues with this import: roads and
waterways come from an old import and might very well cross the
buildings we'd like to import. For now, we have a task on the osmus
task manager to try and correct road geometry (currently finished at
50%) that covers Fairfield County (WestCOG is a part of Fairfield
county): https://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/193. This is not going
very fast, so we'd like to start the import even though we haven't
finished the tasks. We plan to fix road and water issues as we
encounter them instead, while encouraging people to go and fix them
independently from our import.

WestCOG currently has almost no building mapped, but obviously we plan
to keep existing buildings and only import buildings that are not yet
mapped.

What is a good way to split this import? Is there a good size per
changeset that you could recommend?

Thanks for your help!

Julien


From yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 17:30:02 2020
From: yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com (Yury Yatsynovich)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:30:02 -0400
Subject: [Imports] Import WestCOG building footprints in south-west
 Connecticut
In-Reply-To: <20200822184037.37aab793@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
References: <20200822184037.37aab793@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
Message-ID: <CAJbo8cGcuQj2s-J=D8cCBLSFBujOqNP=mWsEgnYg1rOUqoF4YA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Julien,
The following communication that I've had recently with a CT official might
be of interest to you:


*********

Hi Yury,



At this point, yes, I think that’s correct. Obviously, we’d like if you
cite the state, but we don’t have set guidelines for that. I forwarded the
other issue with downloading data and will let you know what I hear.
Hide quoted text



Thanks,



Scott



*From:* Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 8:53 AM
*To:* Gaul, Scott <Scott.Gaul at ct.gov>
*Subject:* Re: Request for permission to import data into OpenStreetMap



Thank you,  Scott!

The above mentioned terms describe mostly (lack of) liabilities of the data
provider, but don't mention any constraints on who and how can use the
data. Does it mean that there are no such constraints? There is also no
attribution requirement -- does it mean that I'm not required to cite the
source of the data?

With best regards,



On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 7:42 AM Gaul, Scott <Scott.Gaul at ct.gov> wrote:

Hi Yury,

Thanks for asking – you can use the terms of use for the CT open data
portal, here: https://data.ct.gov/terms. That should also cover the GIS
portal. Let us know any questions.



Thanks,



Scott



*From:* Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 31, 2020 3:57 PM
*To:* Gaul, Scott <Scott.Gaul at ct.gov>
*Subject:* Request for permission to import data into OpenStreetMap



Hi Scott!

Are there any constraints on who and how is allowed to use the data posted
on http://geodata-ctmaps.opendata.arcgis.com
<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeodata-ctmaps.opendata.arcgis.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7CScott.Gaul%40ct.gov%7C7d7679549bd943e31e6f08d837ac29e1%7C118b7cfaa3dd48b9b02631ff69bb738b%7C0&sdata=PYF2JL9cVk0JZ50ndaEao7mH9iaA%2BGGlsKjsmTkO8is%3D&reserved=0>
?

I'm asking this because I'm interested in importing the data on CT
buildings with addresses into OpenStreetMap (OSM) -- to do so I need to
make sure that the imported data's license is compatible with OSM.

With kind regards,

OSM contributor,

--

Yury Yatsynovich


On Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 1:17 PM Julien Lepiller <osm at lepiller.eu> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> With other contributors in Connecticut, we would like to import
> building footprints. We have evaluated different data sources, and
> concluded that no Connecticut-wide sources were usable without a lot of
> manual work to fix building geometry.
>
> We found that the WestCOG has very accurate building footprint data on
> its territory (south west Connecticut), available online and with a
> compatible license (CC0):
> http://data.westcog.org:8080/GIS_data/Buildings.gdb.zip
> That's 513,141 buildings, and 296,423 building parts in some of them,
> that cover this territory:
>
> https://westcog.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/WestCOG_Locus_Map-e1439920850177-790x1024.jpg
>
> Other COGs unfortunately don't share this data online. We hope that a
> successful import could be a convincing argument for other COGs to open
> their data.
>
> We have documented our current plan at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Connecticut/Western_COG_Building_Import
> on the wiki.
>
> We have contacted local mappers of this part of
> Connecticut (we are based in and around New Haven, not is south-west
> Connecticut), with no negative feedback and 2-3 positive responses. We
> have created a process to convert the data from WestCOG to OSM tags and
> files that can easily be loaded in JOSM.
>
> We have never done an import before, so we'd appreciate any advice on
> how to properly do the import. From our reading the wiki, we should use
> a separate user to import the data. Is that one shared user for the
> import, or one user for each person importing data?
>
> We have identified potential issues with this import: roads and
> waterways come from an old import and might very well cross the
> buildings we'd like to import. For now, we have a task on the osmus
> task manager to try and correct road geometry (currently finished at
> 50%) that covers Fairfield County (WestCOG is a part of Fairfield
> county): https://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/193. This is not going
> very fast, so we'd like to start the import even though we haven't
> finished the tasks. We plan to fix road and water issues as we
> encounter them instead, while encouraging people to go and fix them
> independently from our import.
>
> WestCOG currently has almost no building mapped, but obviously we plan
> to keep existing buildings and only import buildings that are not yet
> mapped.
>
> What is a good way to split this import? Is there a good size per
> changeset that you could recommend?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Julien
>
> _______________________________________________
> Imports mailing list
> Imports at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200822/dbd4d79d/attachment.htm>

From osm at lepiller.eu  Sat Aug 22 18:17:15 2020
From: osm at lepiller.eu (Julien Lepiller)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 20:17:15 +0200
Subject: [Imports] Import WestCOG building footprints in south-west
 Connecticut
In-Reply-To: <CAJbo8cGcuQj2s-J=D8cCBLSFBujOqNP=mWsEgnYg1rOUqoF4YA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20200822184037.37aab793@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAJbo8cGcuQj2s-J=D8cCBLSFBujOqNP=mWsEgnYg1rOUqoF4YA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200822201715.5df8f498@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>

Le Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:30:02 -0400,
Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com> a écrit :

> Hi Julien,
> The following communication that I've had recently with a CT official
> might be of interest to you:
> 
> 

Oh, great! I think we already saw this data (I tried to contact them
too, but never got a reply :/). From what we saw (I think it was in
February?) the footprints have simplification issues (see
https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T029HV94T-FTDGDHXTM/image.png for
instance) where they are too detailed, not square enough, etc. Some
buildings also have holes in them, when there's none in the imagery.

So I think it's too bad to be used directly, without a lot of manual
effort to simplify, square and redraw the shapes. However, the address
data is very interesting, so maybe we could extract from it? Or we
could use a separate dataset if they have addresses separately.


From machyna at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 23:36:23 2020
From: machyna at gmail.com (Martin Machyna)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:36:23 -0400
Subject: [Imports] Import WestCOG building footprints in south-west
 Connecticut
In-Reply-To: <20200822201715.5df8f498@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
References: <20200822184037.37aab793@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAJbo8cGcuQj2s-J=D8cCBLSFBujOqNP=mWsEgnYg1rOUqoF4YA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200822201715.5df8f498@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
Message-ID: <CAG8bT+QvyK+3f6KnqpoJ7dv4dNpQn39VTv63=12e2ZWo=cbmeA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank Julien for pushing this forward!

yeah, I tried to get addresses from here:
http://geodata-ctmaps.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/bfa7da83da384c2aa809882179369dc4_0/features/305004
and add them on top of the westCOG buildings.

The data is a big mess because it's a join_table of like 30 different
address databases. I lost a bit of motivation there, but I could have a
look at it again.

Martin

On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 2:19 PM Julien Lepiller <osm at lepiller.eu> wrote:

> Le Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:30:02 -0400,
> Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> > Hi Julien,
> > The following communication that I've had recently with a CT official
> > might be of interest to you:
> >
> >
>
> Oh, great! I think we already saw this data (I tried to contact them
> too, but never got a reply :/). From what we saw (I think it was in
> February?) the footprints have simplification issues (see
> https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T029HV94T-FTDGDHXTM/image.png for
> instance) where they are too detailed, not square enough, etc. Some
> buildings also have holes in them, when there's none in the imagery.
>
> So I think it's too bad to be used directly, without a lot of manual
> effort to simplify, square and redraw the shapes. However, the address
> data is very interesting, so maybe we could extract from it? Or we
> could use a separate dataset if they have addresses separately.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Imports mailing list
> Imports at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200822/7172b34b/attachment.htm>

From juuso.korhonen at cgi.com  Tue Aug 25 14:12:32 2020
From: juuso.korhonen at cgi.com (Korhonen, Juuso)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 14:12:32 +0000
Subject: [Imports] Helsinki region public transportation stop import
Message-ID: <ff2e38cad1864405a9a2d25e6ce8a559@cgi.com>

Dear list,

We have planned a one-time data import of Helsinki Region Transport (Helsingin seudun liikenne, "HSL" in short) public transportation stop (bus, rail, metro, ferry) attribute data into OSM. The import has been brewing for a while now and I'm kindly asking for a review of the international OSM community.

The import page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Finland:HSL/HSL_bus_stop_import

The import page has all the details but here is a short summary:

Community discussion and more detailed background of the reasons for the import by HSL representative and OSM-user houtari (both Finnish/Swedish):
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=64864

The data is openly available CC-BY 4.0 HSL stop data:
https://public-transport-hslhrt.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/hsln-pys%C3%A4kit

We have explicit written permission and a waiver for ODbL compatibility:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/7/75/HSL_permission.pdf

1) we are doing an automated update of ref-tag value of public transportation stops within the municipality of Helsinki by adding a "H" prefix to ref if the stop is missing the prefix
2) Additionally the import adds names in both of the official languages of Finnish/Swedish and shelter=yes/no for public transportations stops of the whole HSL area (all the participating municipalities).

The HSL stop data is matched with the ref-tag value of OSM stops. Import does not add/modify/remove any features. Only attributes of existing and matching OSM stops are modified (by adding H-prefix if stop ref-tag value is missing it). The names and shelter info are added only if missing and in conflicting cases OSM is considered "master data".

"We" are users houtari, HSL_PALAUTE and juusokor and eager to hear for your feedback.

Thank you for your time!

Juuso Korhonen
juusokor
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200825/e7c90621/attachment.htm>

From thekingofravens at disroot.org  Wed Aug 26 00:07:18 2020
From: thekingofravens at disroot.org (Raven King)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 17:07:18 -0700
Subject: [Imports] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston County, WA, USA
Message-ID: <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org>

Alright I have an update:

After an email chain with Thurston County GeoData Center, I finally got
explicit permission to use the data in open street map. 

"Hello Raven,

You can use the data in Open Street Maps and credit GeoData UNLESS you
change the data in any way. If you change the data you can still use it
in Open Street Maps but CANNOT credit GeoData and the County. We make
no warrantees about the data temporally, spatially, or in terms of
attribution.

Please let me know if this helps to clarify the disclaimer or if you
still have questions.

Thank you!

Leslie Carman
GIS Analyst I"

I can provide the entire email chain if required but this is the part
that matters. As for the terms they gave me, what is the best way of handling this? My instinct is just to, in some very minor way, ensure every piece of data is modified somehow so future mappers do not have to worry about it. Does just adding it to OSM count as modification, since we convert the data fields?

At this point, I would like to propose that we import this data, as
this includes rural towns and unincorporated thurston
county.
I would divide the building footprints into small blocks to avoid well
mapped areas.
As for addresses, because they are points and there are so few
addresses in my region, I feel like we could be more aggresive about
that import, although how much so I am not certain.


Also @Clifford Snow if you see this I would appreciate whatever you
have to teach about imports. 

Sincerely,
Raven



From clifford at snowandsnow.us  Wed Aug 26 00:29:32 2020
From: clifford at snowandsnow.us (Clifford Snow)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 17:29:32 -0700
Subject: [Imports] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston County, WA,
 USA
In-Reply-To: <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org>
References: <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org>
Message-ID: <CADAoPLpUE3A5swWZr9v_TyvYBc1PPg75HPvHJL46obc5EYSXVw@mail.gmail.com>

Raven,
I would suggest you add the email contents to the contributors [1] section
of the wiki. I agree with you that we will be modifying their data by not
using their tags and adding ours. I would recommend making a note of that
on the wiki.

I am happy to help you get started with your import. If you have time, we
could do a video chat to go over how I do imports and what would work best
for you. Please email me off line with some time frames that would work for
you.

Clifford


[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#United_States#Washington_State

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 5:07 PM Raven King <thekingofravens at disroot.org>
wrote:

> Alright I have an update:
>
> After an email chain with Thurston County GeoData Center, I finally got
> explicit permission to use the data in open street map.
>
> "Hello Raven,
>
> You can use the data in Open Street Maps and credit GeoData UNLESS you
> change the data in any way. If you change the data you can still use it
> in Open Street Maps but CANNOT credit GeoData and the County. We make
> no warrantees about the data temporally, spatially, or in terms of
> attribution.
>
> Please let me know if this helps to clarify the disclaimer or if you
> still have questions.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Leslie Carman
> GIS Analyst I"
>
> I can provide the entire email chain if required but this is the part
> that matters. As for the terms they gave me, what is the best way of
> handling this? My instinct is just to, in some very minor way, ensure every
> piece of data is modified somehow so future mappers do not have to worry
> about it. Does just adding it to OSM count as modification, since we
> convert the data fields?
>
> At this point, I would like to propose that we import this data, as
> this includes rural towns and unincorporated thurston
> county.
> I would divide the building footprints into small blocks to avoid well
> mapped areas.
> As for addresses, because they are points and there are so few
> addresses in my region, I feel like we could be more aggresive about
> that import, although how much so I am not certain.
>
>
> Also @Clifford Snow if you see this I would appreciate whatever you
> have to teach about imports.
>
> Sincerely,
> Raven
>
>

-- 
@osm_washington
www.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200825/0578cf3b/attachment.htm>

From matkoniecz at tutanota.com  Wed Aug 26 04:07:55 2020
From: matkoniecz at tutanota.com (Mateusz Konieczny)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 06:07:55 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Imports] [Talk-us] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston
 County, WA, USA
In-Reply-To: <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org-MFc5-ok----2>
References: <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org>
 <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org-MFc5-ok----2>
Message-ID: <MFcwq7_--3-2@tutanota.com>

Is specifying source in changeset
or on import page on Wiki qualifying
as crediting them?

Because doing this is actually required.

26 Aug 2020, 02:07 by thekingofravens at disroot.org:

> Alright I have an update:
>
> After an email chain with Thurston County GeoData Center, I finally got
> explicit permission to use the data in open street map. 
>
> "Hello Raven,
>
> You can use the data in Open Street Maps and credit GeoData UNLESS you
> change the data in any way. If you change the data you can still use it
> in Open Street Maps but CANNOT credit GeoData and the County. We make
> no warrantees about the data temporally, spatially, or in terms of
> attribution.
>
> Please let me know if this helps to clarify the disclaimer or if you
> still have questions.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Leslie Carman
> GIS Analyst I"
>
> I can provide the entire email chain if required but this is the part
> that matters. As for the terms they gave me, what is the best way of handling this? My instinct is just to, in some very minor way, ensure every piece of data is modified somehow so future mappers do not have to worry about it. Does just adding it to OSM count as modification, since we convert the data fields?
>
> At this point, I would like to propose that we import this data, as
> this includes rural towns and unincorporated thurston
> county.
> I would divide the building footprints into small blocks to avoid well
> mapped areas.
> As for addresses, because they are points and there are so few
> addresses in my region, I feel like we could be more aggresive about
> that import, although how much so I am not certain.
>
>
> Also @Clifford Snow if you see this I would appreciate whatever you
> have to teach about imports. 
>
> Sincerely,
> Raven
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200826/e793562b/attachment-0001.htm>

From luktar at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 11:13:17 2020
From: luktar at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz_Taraszka?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 13:13:17 +0200
Subject: [Imports] Import stop signs for blind persons in Katowice, Poland
Message-ID: <CA+B9=yJTiSXk=fvOyZOPgw0vmMGgG7Md2JrROLdtx5+9gUh6Fw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Blind persons are using GPS applications on their phones and use OSM data
as a most common and reliable data source.

We are a team of two programmers and we plan to add additional objects,
very important for a blind persons, to the OSM in Katowice Poland. These
objects will be stop signs.
A stop sign is a place where people should wait for a tram or bus stop.

The concept and the explanation of the project is available on this Wiki
page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/luktar/Stop_signs_for_blind#The_opinion_of_companies_producing_navigation_solutions_for_the_blind

We want to create a solution useful for the blind persons and build it with
the harmony with the community so your advices will be very helpful.

-- 
Pozdrawiam
Taraszka Łukasz
tel. 668 462 791
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200826/12386880/attachment.htm>

From thekingofravens at disroot.org  Wed Aug 26 13:42:54 2020
From: thekingofravens at disroot.org (Raven King)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 06:42:54 -0700
Subject: [Imports] [Talk-us] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston
 County, WA, USA
In-Reply-To: <MFcwq7_--3-2@tutanota.com>
References: <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org>
 <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org-MFc5-ok----2>
 <MFcwq7_--3-2@tutanota.com>
Message-ID: <ced1612eb2e504c4734c35b4c5b5a140b446ddbb.camel@disroot.org>

One solution might be to modify the dataset then provide some upload of
the modified dataset as the source?

My understanding is that yes it could. The goal is that they do want to
be seen as responsible if we modify the data in any way that is
incorrect, nor do they want us to represent them in any official
capacity.

On Wed, 2020-08-26 at 06:07 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via Imports wrote:
> Is specifying source in changeset
> or on import page on Wiki qualifying
> as crediting them?
> 
> Because doing this is actually required.
> 
> 
> 26 Aug 2020, 02:07 by thekingofravens at disroot.org:
> > Alright I have an update:
> > 
> > After an email chain with Thurston County GeoData Center, I finally
> > got
> > explicit permission to use the data in open street map. 
> > 
> > "Hello Raven,
> > 
> > You can use the data in Open Street Maps and credit GeoData UNLESS
> > you
> > change the data in any way. If you change the data you can still
> > use it
> > in Open Street Maps but CANNOT credit GeoData and the County. We
> > make
> > no warrantees about the data temporally, spatially, or in terms of
> > attribution.
> > 
> > Please let me know if this helps to clarify the disclaimer or if
> > you
> > still have questions.
> > 
> > Thank you!
> > 
> > Leslie Carman
> > GIS Analyst I"
> > 
> > I can provide the entire email chain if required but this is the
> > part
> > that matters. As for the terms they gave me, what is the best way
> > of handling this? My instinct is just to, in some very minor way,
> > ensure every piece of data is modified somehow so future mappers do
> > not have to worry about it. Does just adding it to OSM count as
> > modification, since we convert the data fields?
> > 
> > At this point, I would like to propose that we import this data, as
> > this includes rural towns and unincorporated thurston
> > county.
> > I would divide the building footprints into small blocks to avoid
> > well
> > mapped areas.
> > As for addresses, because they are points and there are so few
> > addresses in my region, I feel like we could be more aggresive
> > about
> > that import, although how much so I am not certain.
> > 
> > 
> > Also @Clifford Snow if you see this I would appreciate whatever you
> > have to teach about imports. 
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > Raven
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Imports mailing list
> Imports at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports



From thekingofravens at disroot.org  Wed Aug 26 13:46:53 2020
From: thekingofravens at disroot.org (Raven King)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 06:46:53 -0700
Subject: [Imports] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston County, WA,
 USA
In-Reply-To: <CAFG37-u8Ri_un8raWsf_DnrEGBC77uXKwiaBsUu8kENaLF3AvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <07894eb384e3c167ef01aa3d9ab408081372be7f.camel@disroot.org>
 <CADAoPLpUE3A5swWZr9v_TyvYBc1PPg75HPvHJL46obc5EYSXVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFG37-u8Ri_un8raWsf_DnrEGBC77uXKwiaBsUu8kENaLF3AvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25f2670ffabe39eb9061c153d90c53d52993e222.camel@disroot.org>

It might work, although it opens some wiki questions. I mean, at some
point somewhere, I am gonna have to put probably on the wiki that
thurston county gave permission to use the data so that we have it for
future records. 

On Wed, 2020-08-26 at 03:08 -0700, Pat Tressel wrote:
> One option for both including the attribution and also not having to
> worry about future mappers editing it, and hence needing to be warned
> to remove an attribution, is to put the attribution in the changeset
> comments, rather than in a tag.  Or, to use a tag, include some
> boilerplate with the attribution that says it was originally from XYZ
> but they are not responsible for later changes.
> 
> When they say changed, do they mean just the material map data --
> points, polygons, addresses?  If so, removing their tags / metadata
> would not constitute a change under that definition of change.
> 
> (Semi-off-topic:  Note that for a different project, if we imported
> external data, we *wanted* the metadata.  In particular, we wanted
> any dataset / table primary key or identifier, *in case we had to
> update the record with changes from the same dataset* -- we wanted to
> match up the record we had with a modified record in the original
> source.  Likewise, if we had a change on our end, that needed to be
> pushed back to the original source -- we'd need the identifier for
> that as well.)
> 
> -- Pat
> 



From ravilacoya at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 14:38:18 2020
From: ravilacoya at gmail.com (Rafael Avila Coya)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 16:38:18 +0200
Subject: [Imports] Import stop signs for blind persons in Katowice,
 Poland
In-Reply-To: <CA+B9=yJTiSXk=fvOyZOPgw0vmMGgG7Md2JrROLdtx5+9gUh6Fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+B9=yJTiSXk=fvOyZOPgw0vmMGgG7Md2JrROLdtx5+9gUh6Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2e1c5f08-0ba0-813b-5579-8cc6f258fb8b@gmail.com>

Hi, Łukasz:

Thank you for your interest in improving the access of disabled people 
to transport and another amenities in Katowice.

In your wiki, you are proposing to make changes to the tagging of bus 
and tram networks.

Public transport tagging is explained in the Public transport wiki [1]. 
There is one dedicated wiki to Buses [2].

Any change to that wiki should be best discussed in the tagging mailing 
list [3] or in the talk pages of those wikis.

In the wiki, you say the following:

"The opinion of companies producing navigation solutions for the blind

As you were able to read before, each of the application works in a 
different way. One application recognises a ref as a stop number, other 
not. I contacted the persons responsible for the applications and I was 
informed that if there will be a standard accepted by the OSM community 
they will change the software rules of reading stop names. So I took all 
of my knowledge in this place and I’m trying to create that standard."

Some remarks:

The opinion of companies, as well as the opinion of anyone else 
(individuals, organizations, etc.), is always welcome in OpenStreetMap, 
but we should not adjust our tagging schema to the needs of different 
companies, because they aren't the only ones interested in using the 
data. We map the reality the best we can, but we can't map for the 
different data consumers, because they will have in general different 
needs that we can't accommodate.

According to you, they say "if there will be a standard accepted by the 
OSM community they would do this and that". But there is actually a 
standard accepted by the community, that is what you read in the already 
mentioned Public transport and other wikis. With lots of discussions, 
and new proposals, yes, but we have and we follow those wikis to map 
public transport everywhere around the world, and quite well in my 
honest opinion.

According to the wiki [4], the ref tag means "Reference code of the bus 
stop", that is quite clear in my opinion. For example, in one of the 
tram stops examples of yours [5], we would have the following tags:

name="Pl. Bankowy"
ref="07"

You have also other tags, like local_ref...

Trams numbers 4, 15, 18 and 35 stop in that tram stop. Those numbers can 
be extracted by data consumers (companies, etc.) from each of the tram 
route relations. So no need to create a new stop_no tag either.

Apart from the tagging mailing list, I would suggest you first to 
contact your local Polish osm community, for example through the talk-pl 
mailing list [6]. I am sure they will be very glad to discuss with you 
about mapping all those objects for Katowice and other areas, so 
valuable for disabled people.

Cheers,

Rafael.

[1] Public Transport wiki: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport
[2] Buses mapping: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Buses
[3] Tagging ML: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[4] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Buses#Step_1_-_Make_sure_that_each_bus_stop_in_the_route_has_been_added_to_OpenStreetMap
[5] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Ztm_sign.jpg
[6] Polish mailing list: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-pl

O 26/08/20 ás 13:13, Łukasz Taraszka escribiu:
> Hello,
> 
> Blind persons are using GPS applications on their phones and use OSM 
> data as a most common and reliable data source.
> 
> We are a team of two programmers and we plan to add additional objects, 
> very important for a blind persons, to the OSM in Katowice Poland. These 
> objects will be stop signs.
> A stop sign is a place where people should wait for a tram or bus stop.
> 
> The concept and the explanation of the project is available on this Wiki 
> page: 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/luktar/Stop_signs_for_blind#The_opinion_of_companies_producing_navigation_solutions_for_the_blind
> 
> We want to create a solution useful for the blind persons and build it 
> with the harmony with the community so your advices will be very helpful.
> 
> -- 
> Pozdrawiam
> Taraszka Łukasz
> tel. 668 462 791
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Imports mailing list
> Imports at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
> 


From matkoniecz at tutanota.com  Thu Aug 27 14:58:58 2020
From: matkoniecz at tutanota.com (Mateusz Konieczny)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 16:58:58 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Imports] Import stop signs for blind persons in Katowice,
 Poland
In-Reply-To: <2e1c5f08-0ba0-813b-5579-8cc6f258fb8b@gmail.com>
References: <CA+B9=yJTiSXk=fvOyZOPgw0vmMGgG7Md2JrROLdtx5+9gUh6Fw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2e1c5f08-0ba0-813b-5579-8cc6f258fb8b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MFkQRsB--3-2@tutanota.com>




27 Aug 2020, 16:38 by ravilacoya at gmail.com:
> Apart from the tagging mailing list, I would suggest you first to contact your local Polish osm community, for example through the talk-pl mailing list [6]. I am sure they will be very glad to discuss with you about mapping all those objects for Katowice and other areas, so valuable for disabled people.
>
There was already contact (through
OSM forum, Polish community is not
using mailing list), and this reminds me that
I should reply also there
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200827/ef2f19f5/attachment.htm>

From luktar at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 17:53:09 2020
From: luktar at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz_Taraszka?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 19:53:09 +0200
Subject: [Imports] Import stop signs for blind persons in Katowice,
 Poland
In-Reply-To: <MFkQRsB--3-2@tutanota.com>
References: <CA+B9=yJTiSXk=fvOyZOPgw0vmMGgG7Md2JrROLdtx5+9gUh6Fw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2e1c5f08-0ba0-813b-5579-8cc6f258fb8b@gmail.com> <MFkQRsB--3-2@tutanota.com>
Message-ID: <CA+B9=y+_5fhjs7R2HXcQYFcUSQos_PojVA2=ptWSvkj=uoixeg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Rafael,

Thanks for your response.

I know the standards described on mentioned wiki pages.

The opinion of companies, as well as the opinion of anyone else
> (individuals, organizations, etc.), is always welcome in OpenStreetMap,
> but we should not adjust our tagging schema to the needs of different
> companies, because they aren't the only ones interested in using the
> data. We map the reality the best we can, but we can't map for the
> different data consumers, because they will have in general different
> needs that we can't accommodate.


And

According to you, they say "if there will be a standard accepted by the
> OSM community they would do this and that". But there is actually a
> standard accepted by the community, that is what you read in the already
> mentioned Public transport and other wikis. With lots of discussions,
> and new proposals, yes, but we have and we follow those wikis to map
> public transport everywhere around the world, and quite well in my
> honest opinion.


I totally agree with that. I proposed two new tags and I'm not going to
change existing standards.
I proposed stop_id and stop_no as placeholders which could be replaced with
something that is more relevant to this situation.
Probably gtfs_id and local_ref as was suggested on Polish forum.
My goal is to find a middle ground between OSM community standards and the
companies which are delivering systems for blinds for years.
Both sides have their standards.

Apart from the tagging mailing list, I would suggest you first to
> contact your local Polish osm community, for example through the talk-pl
> mailing list [6]. I am sure they will be very glad to discuss with you
> about mapping all those objects for Katowice and other areas, so
> valuable for disabled people.


It's already there.

For example, in one of the

tram stops examples of yours [5], we would have the following tags:


I wasn't able to check that because link [5] is pointing to an incorrect
location. Could you please send me the correct example?

--
Best regards,
Taraszka Łukasz

czw., 27 sie 2020 o 17:01 Mateusz Konieczny via Imports <
imports at openstreetmap.org> napisał(a):

>
>
>
> 27 Aug 2020, 16:38 by ravilacoya at gmail.com:
>
> Apart from the tagging mailing list, I would suggest you first to contact
> your local Polish osm community, for example through the talk-pl mailing
> list [6]. I am sure they will be very glad to discuss with you about
> mapping all those objects for Katowice and other areas, so valuable for
> disabled people.
>
> There was already contact (through
> OSM forum, Polish community is not
> using mailing list), and this reminds me that
> I should reply also there
> _______________________________________________
> Imports mailing list
> Imports at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
>


-- 
Pozdrawiam
Taraszka Łukasz
tel. 668 462 791
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200829/1bb586fc/attachment.htm>

From osm at lepiller.eu  Sat Aug 29 20:55:46 2020
From: osm at lepiller.eu (Julien Lepiller)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 22:55:46 +0200
Subject: [Imports] Import WestCOG building footprints in south-west
 Connecticut
In-Reply-To: <CAG8bT+QvyK+3f6KnqpoJ7dv4dNpQn39VTv63=12e2ZWo=cbmeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20200822184037.37aab793@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAJbo8cGcuQj2s-J=D8cCBLSFBujOqNP=mWsEgnYg1rOUqoF4YA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200822201715.5df8f498@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAG8bT+QvyK+3f6KnqpoJ7dv4dNpQn39VTv63=12e2ZWo=cbmeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200829225537.192d40c6@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>

So, it's been a week since that last message. Do you think we should
import addresses and buildings at the same time? Should we import the
buildings first and care about addresses later?

Yury, what are your thoughts about the data source quality? Do you
think it's a good idea to import from WestCOG and maybe rely on CT data
for the rest of CT? I tried playing with the data and I didn't see any
difference between drawing the buildings from scratch and having to
simplify and correct CT's data.

Thanks!

Le Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:36:23 -0400,
Martin Machyna <machyna at gmail.com> a écrit :

> Thank Julien for pushing this forward!
> 
> yeah, I tried to get addresses from here:
> http://geodata-ctmaps.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/bfa7da83da384c2aa809882179369dc4_0/features/305004
> and add them on top of the westCOG buildings.
> 
> The data is a big mess because it's a join_table of like 30 different
> address databases. I lost a bit of motivation there, but I could have
> a look at it again.
> 
> Martin
> 
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 2:19 PM Julien Lepiller <osm at lepiller.eu>
> wrote:
> 
> > Le Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:30:02 -0400,
> > Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com> a écrit :
> >  
> > > Hi Julien,
> > > The following communication that I've had recently with a CT
> > > official might be of interest to you:
> > >
> > >  
> >
> > Oh, great! I think we already saw this data (I tried to contact them
> > too, but never got a reply :/). From what we saw (I think it was in
> > February?) the footprints have simplification issues (see
> > https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T029HV94T-FTDGDHXTM/image.png for
> > instance) where they are too detailed, not square enough, etc. Some
> > buildings also have holes in them, when there's none in the imagery.
> >
> > So I think it's too bad to be used directly, without a lot of manual
> > effort to simplify, square and redraw the shapes. However, the
> > address data is very interesting, so maybe we could extract from
> > it? Or we could use a separate dataset if they have addresses
> > separately.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Imports mailing list
> > Imports at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
> >  



From yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 22:05:09 2020
From: yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com (Yury Yatsynovich)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 18:05:09 -0400
Subject: [Imports] [Talk-us] Import WestCOG building footprints in
 south-west Connecticut
In-Reply-To: <20200829225537.192d40c6@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
References: <20200822184037.37aab793@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAJbo8cGcuQj2s-J=D8cCBLSFBujOqNP=mWsEgnYg1rOUqoF4YA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200822201715.5df8f498@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAG8bT+QvyK+3f6KnqpoJ7dv4dNpQn39VTv63=12e2ZWo=cbmeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200829225537.192d40c6@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
Message-ID: <CAJbo8cGzSYOt678N3+OfD2j-sh0RqUd__NRJhyWWLXjgC4-Nhg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Julien,
Unfortunately, I have limited knowledge on the data quality as I wasn't
able to download it (the server returns error). I let the CT point of
contact (Scott) know about the problem -- he mentioned in our communication
that he forwarded the issue to the tech support team, but I haven't heard
from them since then and I'm still unable to download it.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 4:57 PM Julien Lepiller <osm at lepiller.eu> wrote:

> So, it's been a week since that last message. Do you think we should
> import addresses and buildings at the same time? Should we import the
> buildings first and care about addresses later?
>
> Yury, what are your thoughts about the data source quality? Do you
> think it's a good idea to import from WestCOG and maybe rely on CT data
> for the rest of CT? I tried playing with the data and I didn't see any
> difference between drawing the buildings from scratch and having to
> simplify and correct CT's data.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Le Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:36:23 -0400,
> Martin Machyna <machyna at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> > Thank Julien for pushing this forward!
> >
> > yeah, I tried to get addresses from here:
> >
> http://geodata-ctmaps.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/bfa7da83da384c2aa809882179369dc4_0/features/305004
> > and add them on top of the westCOG buildings.
> >
> > The data is a big mess because it's a join_table of like 30 different
> > address databases. I lost a bit of motivation there, but I could have
> > a look at it again.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 2:19 PM Julien Lepiller <osm at lepiller.eu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Le Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:30:02 -0400,
> > > Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com> a écrit :
> > >
> > > > Hi Julien,
> > > > The following communication that I've had recently with a CT
> > > > official might be of interest to you:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Oh, great! I think we already saw this data (I tried to contact them
> > > too, but never got a reply :/). From what we saw (I think it was in
> > > February?) the footprints have simplification issues (see
> > > https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T029HV94T-FTDGDHXTM/image.png for
> > > instance) where they are too detailed, not square enough, etc. Some
> > > buildings also have holes in them, when there's none in the imagery.
> > >
> > > So I think it's too bad to be used directly, without a lot of manual
> > > effort to simplify, square and redraw the shapes. However, the
> > > address data is very interesting, so maybe we could extract from
> > > it? Or we could use a separate dataset if they have addresses
> > > separately.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Imports mailing list
> > > Imports at openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
> > >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200829/234d14df/attachment.htm>

From joe.sapletal at charter.net  Sat Aug 29 22:48:27 2020
From: joe.sapletal at charter.net (joe.sapletal at charter.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 17:48:27 -0500
Subject: [Imports] [Talk-us] Import WestCOG building footprints in
 south-west Connecticut
In-Reply-To: <CAJbo8cGzSYOt678N3+OfD2j-sh0RqUd__NRJhyWWLXjgC4-Nhg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20200822184037.37aab793@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAJbo8cGcuQj2s-J=D8cCBLSFBujOqNP=mWsEgnYg1rOUqoF4YA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200822201715.5df8f498@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAG8bT+QvyK+3f6KnqpoJ7dv4dNpQn39VTv63=12e2ZWo=cbmeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200829225537.192d40c6@tachikoma.lepiller.eu>
 <CAJbo8cGzSYOt678N3+OfD2j-sh0RqUd__NRJhyWWLXjgC4-Nhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003201d67e56$8434ac20$8c9e0460$@charter.net>

I was going to look at the buildings too.  I’ve used a tool in ArcGIS to correct some pretty awful buildings, but I couldn’t download them either.    If there is no hurry, I’d check in again with the contact on Monday.  It would be nice to have the buildings with addresses on them.

 

Joe

 

From: Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2020 5:05 PM
To: Julien Lepiller <osm at lepiller.eu>
Cc: imports at openstreetmap.org; talk-us at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Import WestCOG building footprints in south-west Connecticut

 

Hi Julien,

Unfortunately, I have limited knowledge on the data quality as I wasn't able to download it (the server returns error). I let the CT point of contact (Scott) know about the problem -- he mentioned in our communication that he forwarded the issue to the tech support team, but I haven't heard from them since then and I'm still unable to download it. 

 

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 4:57 PM Julien Lepiller <osm at lepiller.eu <mailto:osm at lepiller.eu> > wrote:

So, it's been a week since that last message. Do you think we should
import addresses and buildings at the same time? Should we import the
buildings first and care about addresses later?

Yury, what are your thoughts about the data source quality? Do you
think it's a good idea to import from WestCOG and maybe rely on CT data
for the rest of CT? I tried playing with the data and I didn't see any
difference between drawing the buildings from scratch and having to
simplify and correct CT's data.

Thanks!

Le Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:36:23 -0400,
Martin Machyna <machyna at gmail.com <mailto:machyna at gmail.com> > a écrit :

> Thank Julien for pushing this forward!
> 
> yeah, I tried to get addresses from here:
> http://geodata-ctmaps.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/bfa7da83da384c2aa809882179369dc4_0/features/305004
> and add them on top of the westCOG buildings.
> 
> The data is a big mess because it's a join_table of like 30 different
> address databases. I lost a bit of motivation there, but I could have
> a look at it again.
> 
> Martin
> 
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 2:19 PM Julien Lepiller <osm at lepiller.eu <mailto:osm at lepiller.eu> >
> wrote:
> 
> > Le Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:30:02 -0400,
> > Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com <mailto:yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com> > a écrit :
> >  
> > > Hi Julien,
> > > The following communication that I've had recently with a CT
> > > official might be of interest to you:
> > >
> > >  
> >
> > Oh, great! I think we already saw this data (I tried to contact them
> > too, but never got a reply :/). From what we saw (I think it was in
> > February?) the footprints have simplification issues (see
> > https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T029HV94T-FTDGDHXTM/image.png for
> > instance) where they are too detailed, not square enough, etc. Some
> > buildings also have holes in them, when there's none in the imagery.
> >
> > So I think it's too bad to be used directly, without a lot of manual
> > effort to simplify, square and redraw the shapes. However, the
> > address data is very interesting, so maybe we could extract from
> > it? Or we could use a separate dataset if they have addresses
> > separately.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Imports mailing list
> > Imports at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Imports at openstreetmap.org> 
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
> >  


_______________________________________________
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-us at openstreetmap.org> 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/attachments/20200829/3b6595db/attachment-0001.htm>

From ravilacoya at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 23:03:30 2020
From: ravilacoya at gmail.com (Rafael Avila Coya)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 01:03:30 +0200
Subject: [Imports] Import stop signs for blind persons in Katowice,
 Poland
In-Reply-To: <CA+B9=y+_5fhjs7R2HXcQYFcUSQos_PojVA2=ptWSvkj=uoixeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+B9=yJTiSXk=fvOyZOPgw0vmMGgG7Md2JrROLdtx5+9gUh6Fw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2e1c5f08-0ba0-813b-5579-8cc6f258fb8b@gmail.com> <MFkQRsB--3-2@tutanota.com>
 <CA+B9=y+_5fhjs7R2HXcQYFcUSQos_PojVA2=ptWSvkj=uoixeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75591ec3-dc8a-def1-0893-8701d124f75a@gmail.com>

Hi, Łukasz:

I don't know what happens with the [5] link. But it opens without 
problem to me. Maybe you can try through the arquived mail here:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2020-August/006353.html

Cheers,

Rafael.

O 29/08/20 ás 19:53, Łukasz Taraszka escribiu:
> Hello Rafael,
> 
> Thanks for your response.
> 
> I know the standards described on mentioned wiki pages.
> 
>     The opinion of companies, as well as the opinion of anyone else
>     (individuals, organizations, etc.), is always welcome in OpenStreetMap,
>     but we should not adjust our tagging schema to the needs of different
>     companies, because they aren't the only ones interested in using the
>     data. We map the reality the best we can, but we can't map for the
>     different data consumers, because they will have in general different
>     needs that we can't accommodate.
> 
> 
> And
> 
>     According to you, they say "if there will be a standard accepted by the
>     OSM community they would do this and that". But there is actually a
>     standard accepted by the community, that is what you read in the already
>     mentioned Public transport and other wikis. With lots of discussions,
>     and new proposals, yes, but we have and we follow those wikis to map
>     public transport everywhere around the world, and quite well in my
>     honest opinion.
> 
> 
> I totally agree with that. I proposed two new tags and I'm not going to 
> change existing standards.
> I proposed stop_id and stop_no as placeholders which could be replaced 
> with something that is more relevant to this situation.
> Probably gtfs_id and local_ref as was suggested on Polish forum.
> My goal is to find a middle ground between OSM community standards and 
> the companies which are delivering systems for blinds for years.
> Both sides have their standards.
> 
>     Apart from the tagging mailing list, I would suggest you first to
>     contact your local Polish osm community, for example through the talk-pl
>     mailing list [6]. I am sure they will be very glad to discuss with you
>     about mapping all those objects for Katowice and other areas, so
>     valuable for disabled people.
> 
> 
> It's already there.
> 
>     For example, in one of the
> 
>     tram stops examples of yours [5], we would have the following tags:
> 
> 
> I wasn't able to check that because link [5] is pointing to an incorrect 
> location. Could you please send me the correct example?
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> Taraszka Łukasz
> 
> czw., 27 sie 2020 o 17:01 Mateusz Konieczny via Imports 
> <imports at openstreetmap.org <mailto:imports at openstreetmap.org>> napisał(a):
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     27 Aug 2020, 16:38 by ravilacoya at gmail.com
>     <mailto:ravilacoya at gmail.com>:
> 
>         Apart from the tagging mailing list, I would suggest you first
>         to contact your local Polish osm community, for example through
>         the talk-pl mailing list [6]. I am sure they will be very glad
>         to discuss with you about mapping all those objects for Katowice
>         and other areas, so valuable for disabled people.
> 
>     There was already contact (through
>     OSM forum, Polish community is not
>     using mailing list), and this reminds me that
>     I should reply also there
>     _______________________________________________
>     Imports mailing list
>     Imports at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Imports at openstreetmap.org>
>     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Pozdrawiam
> Taraszka Łukasz
> tel. 668 462 791