[Imports] US - HIDFL (DHS) Hospital Import

[Matthew Whilden]

Hello Mike!

Excellent catch on the renamed hospital. That's another good data point
about what to be cautious about in this set. GNIS has similar traps in the
various feature types and it can be hard to know until you start digging.

Could you expand on why you think the process currently being followed
counts as an import? There was similar confusion when I was asking about
National Address Database additions. I had said "import" in my initial mail
but the consensus seemed to be that so long as I was reviewing things as I
went, I had satisfied my obligation as a good community member.

Presuming William is following along with the diary entry (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/watmildon/diary/401371) in the wiki as
originally posted, my understanding is that's not an import. He's reviewing
each item and editing in the same way a MapRoulette mapper given a list of
websites and lat/long coordinates would. Mistakes will happen. The edits
aren't all perfect. But for example, we don't make MR folks have import
accounts so I don't know how to articulate the dividing line.

Matt

On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 10:16 AM Mike Thompson <miketho16 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello William,
>
> It appears that you are continuing with this import[0] even after Marc's
> message and my message pointing out that you need to wait to get "community
> buy-in" before proceeding with an import[1].  Further, you seem to be doing
> so using your regular OSM username rather than an account dedicated to
> imports as specified by the import guidelines[2].  I questioned the quality
> of the HIFLD dataset, and it looks like you have added a hospital[0] near
> where I live that no longer exists (or you could say exists under a
> different name). You did add it as "disused", but that is not quite correct
> as it has been purchased and renamed[3]. The facility with the new name,
> Johnstown Heights Behavioral Health, is in the HIFLD dataset (with the same
> address and number of beds), but has not been added to OSM as far as I can
> tell.  I also noticed that you deleted the "Progress by State" section of
> your wiki page, if you really have done some importing already, that
> probably should be left in there, unless you - or someone else - has
> reverted your edits.
>
> Mike
>
> [0] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/135720280
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines
> [2]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_6_-_Uploading
> [3]
> https://www.greeleytribune.com/2020/12/10/clear-view-behavioral-health-sold-to-new-mental-health-group/
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 7:53 AM Mike Thompson <miketho16 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 6:27 PM William Edmisten <wcedmisten at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> My name is William Edmisten (wcedmisten). I've been mapping in OSM for
>>> almost a year, but have no relevant affiliation with any other
>>> organizations.
>>>
>>> Hi William, thanks for engaging with the community!
>>
>>
>>> I am writing to propose an import of the HIDFL Hospital dataset
>>> <https://hifld-geoplatform.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/hospitals/explore>
>>> (8,013 records), and to discuss possible ways in which this dataset could
>>> be used.
>>>
>>
>>> I've documented some details about the Hospital dataset and how it might
>>> be applied on this wiki page
>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HIFLD/Public_Health>.
>>>
>> It appears, as I think Marc has pointed out, that you have already
>> started this import.  You need to get community buy-in *before* starting to
>> actually load data into OSM via an import.  If this is the case, please
>> stop the import until the community has had a chance to comment on your
>> proposal.
>>
>> Also, I don't see this import listed in the Import Catalog:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue
>>
>> You, and others who participate in the import, must use an account other
>> than their regular OSM account, e.g. for you that might be
>> wcedmisten_imports
>>
>>>
>>> Looking at the archives, the entire HIDFL dataset was previously
>>> discussed here in October 2022, but I would like to specifically focus on
>>> the Hospitals dataset. One of the previous concerns was that the scope of
>>> HIDFL overall was too broad, so I would like to narrow the discussion to
>>> this single dataset for now.
>>>
>>> I believe this data is appropriate for OSM, and can be verified
>>> independently of the dataset, making it a good choice for import or for
>>> reference while mapping. In particular, hospitals' websites can be used to
>>> verify most or all of the data aggregated here.
>>>
>> I have some serious concerns about the likely quality of this dataset.
>> The metadata says that the dataset was "geocoded", while
>> that can have different meanings, what it means here is likely that a list
>> of hospitals with addresses was fed to a computer program that matched them
>> up with an address (reference) database to obtain coordinates.  While this
>> seems simple, a lot can go wrong.  For example, a transposition of a digit
>> in a hospital's zip code can cause it to be placed 100's of miles away
>> from its true location.
>>
>> Duplicates are another problem, I have checked a few hospitals in my
>> local area, and I have already found two sets of duplicates (cases where
>> one entity purchased another, and now they both show up in the dataset at
>> essentially the same location).
>>
>> While the metadata says that the dataset was updated in January of 2023,
>> I don't think that means that a complete update was done, just that those
>> maintaining the data changed something at that time.  Thus, large parts of
>> this dataset could be out of date. Some of the validation dates (VAL_DATE)
>> are from 2013, 10 years ago! Also, the VAL_METHOD for many records is
>> listed simply as "IMAGERY", and while a large general hospital is probably
>> obvious from imagery, this is not necessarily true for a smaller facility.
>>
>> I would like to see at least a sample of the data converted to the OSM
>> schema.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>>
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